Send us a text with a question or thought on this episode ( We cannot replay from this link)
Grief isn’t just about loss—it’s about learning to navigate change, especially when living with chronic illness. In this powerful episode of Endo Battery, Dr. Natasha Trujillo joins us to explore how generational grief shapes our emotional responses and how perfectionism, acceptance, and resilience play a role in our healing journeys.
🔹 How generational experiences influence the way we process grief
🔹 Why grief with chronic illness isn’t linear—and how to honor your journey
🔹 The connection between perfectionism, loss, and self-worth
🔹 How family history impacts chronic health struggles
🔹 Practical strategies for redefining success and embracing resilience
If you’ve ever felt like grief is an unspoken part of your chronic illness experience, this episode is for you. Tune in and discover new ways to process, heal, and find strength in community. 💛
Buy: And She was Never The Same Again
Website endobattery.com
Navigating Mental Health and Resilience
Speaker 1
0:02
Welcome
to
EndoBattery
,
where
I
share
my
journey
with
endometriosis
and
chronic
illness
,
while
learning
and
growing
along
the
way
.
This
podcast
is
not
a
substitute
for
medical
advice
,
but
a
supportive
space
to
provide
community
and
valuable
information
so
you
never
have
to
face
this
journey
alone
.
We
embrace
a
range
of
perspectives
that
may
not
always
align
with
our
own
.
Believing
that
open
dialogue
helps
us
grow
and
gain
new
tools
always
align
with
our
own
.
Believing
that
open
dialogue
helps
us
grow
and
gain
new
tools
.
Join
me
as
I
share
stories
of
strength
,
resilience
and
hope
,
from
personal
experiences
to
expert
insights
.
I'm
your
host
,
alana
,
and
this
is
EndoBattery
charging
our
lives
when
endometriosis
drains
us
.
Welcome
to
EndoBattery
.
Grab
your
cup
of
coffee
or
your
cup
of
tea
and
join
me
at
the
table
.
Today
,
we're
joined
at
the
table
by
our
incredible
guest
,
a
powerhouse
in
the
world
of
mental
health
,
athletics
and
advocacy
Dr
Natasha
Trujillo
.
Speaker 1
0:56
Dr
Trujillo
is
a
licensed
counseling
and
sports
psychologist
whose
work
is
transforming
the
way
we
understand
mental
health
in
high-performance
spaces
.
With
a
doctorate
from
Purdue
University
and
years
of
hands-on
experience
supporting
collegiate
athletes
,
she
has
dedicated
her
career
to
breaking
down
barriers
,
increasing
access
to
care
and
destigmatizing
mental
health
struggles
in
sports
.
Dr
Trujillo
has
worked
across
multiple
levels
of
care
,
from
university
counseling
centers
to
intensive
outpatient
programs
,
helping
athletes
navigate
everything
from
performance
pressures
to
eating
disorders
.
She's
also
a
passionate
advocate
for
equity
and
inclusion
,
ensuring
mental
health
care
is
accessible
to
all
.
And
,
beyond
her
work
in
athletics
,
she
specializes
in
grief
,
loss
and
self-injury
,
areas
that
deeply
impact
so
many
lives
.
Speaker 1
1:47
But
Dr
Trujillo
isn't
just
a
clinician
she's
also
an
author
.
Her
book
and
she
Was
Never
the
Same
Again
takes
readers
on
a
journey
through
trauma
,
healing
and
transformation
.
It's
a
powerful
exploration
of
resilience
and
I
can't
wait
to
dive
into
it
with
her
today
.
So
grab
that
cup
of
coffee
or
tea
and
let's
welcome
Dr
Natasha
Trujillo
to
the
table
.
Thank
you
so
much
,
dr
Trujillo
,
for
joining
me
today
and
sitting
at
the
table
with
me
.
I
am
honored
to
have
you
here
as
my
guest
and
boy
.
We
have
a
lot
to
talk
about
.
So
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
me
today
.
Thanks
so
much
for
having
me
.
Speaker 2
2:22
Glad
to
be
here
.
Speaker 1
2:25
Yeah
,
there's
a
lot
of
what
you
wrote
in
your
book
that
I
resonated
with
deeply
and
I
think
that
your
expertise
and
what
you've
gone
through
and
what
you've
detailed
in
your
book
have
really
allowed
me
to
see
things
differently
.
I
started
as
I
was
listening
to
your
book
.
I
was
starting
to
process
a
lot
of
what
you
were
saying
in
my
own
life
and
I
think
it
correlates
a
lot
to
those
who
live
with
chronic
illness
and
grief
and
everything
else
that
we
go
through
.
Can
you
explain
a
little
bit
about
your
book
and
who
you
are
and
what
got
you
to
this
point
in
your
career
?
Speaker 2
2:58
Yeah
,
I'll
start
with
a
little
background
.
So
I'm
a
counseling
and
sports
psychologist
.
I
have
been
,
I'm
currently
in
private
practice
.
I've
been
in
private
practice
for
the
last
couple
of
years
.
I
was
lucky
enough
to
get
to
train
in
a
variety
of
settings
.
So
I
started
out
in
residential
treatment
facilities
without
risk
youth
and
then
I
kind
of
bounced
around
.
I
did
a
lot
in
university
counseling
centers
.
I
worked
in
college
athletics
for
several
years
,
community
mental
health
centers
,
inpatient
,
outpatient
,
worked
at
an
eating
disorder
facility
,
so
I've
kind
of
been
all
over
.
And
then
of
course
I
specialize
working
with
athletes
.
I'm
also
a
sports
psychologist
and
so
that
has
been
incredible
to
really
start
to
build
my
private
practice
around
the
passions
and
the
interests
that
I
have
.
It
makes
it
feel
a
lot
less
like
work
.
Speaker 2
3:40
And
then
on
the
clinical
side
of
things
,
I
specialize
in
grief
and
loss
,
eating
disorders
,
trauma
,
perfectionism
,
anxiety
and
depressive
disorders
and
then
all
things
performance
psych
.
Speaker 2
3:51
So
that
combination
of
things
I
think
keeps
me
very
busy
and
that
a
lot
of
that
was
what
made
me
want
to
write
the
book
.
Speaker 2
4:00
So
I
guess
a
few
years
ago
now
I
was
experiencing
my
own
grief
,
to
be
completely
honest
with
you
,
and
I
was
struggling
and
I
don't
feel
like
I
was
dealing
with
it
very
well
,
and
that
came
with
a
lot
of
shame
and
a
lot
of
guilt
,
because
I'm
a
psychologist
and
I
specialize
in
that
,
and
so
I
just
started
to
write
,
and
the
more
I
wrote
,
the
more
I
was
like
you
know
.
Speaker 2
4:27
I
think
this
can
actually
be
helpful
for
more
than
just
me
,
and
the
way
that
you
described
what
the
book
has
done
for
you
and
how
you've
been
able
to
kind
of
dig
in
and
use
my
stories
as
a
catalyst
to
look
at
your
own
life
is
exactly
what
I
wanted
readers
to
be
able
to
take
away
to
make
some
of
these
things
that
are
more
untalkable
or
feel
untalkable
and
hard
to
look
at
in
your
own
life
and
kind
of
start
to
process
and
work
with
it
and
have
some
different
ideas
and
stepping
stones
to
do
your
own
work
and
integrate
the
losses
in
your
own
life
a
little
bit
more
fully
.
It's
kind
of
what
got
me
here
.
Understanding Generational Grief and Coping
Speaker 1
5:02
The
thing
that
I
loved
about
your
book
is
that
it
wasn't
just
like
a
self-help
book
.
Speaker 1
5:07
It
was
digging
into
your
family
history
,
it
was
digging
into
your
past
.
It
was
digging
into
who
you
are
and
processing
the
things
that
you've
gone
through
and
what
your
family
has
gone
through
.
And
something
that
I
really
resonated
with
was
the
generational
grief
and
coping
,
how
it
affected
us
generations
down
,
and
I
didn't
really
put
a
lot
of
that
together
and
,
as
someone
who
has
experienced
grief
and
loss
very
closely
and
seeing
how
that
grief
and
loss
has
affected
the
way
that
I
cope
with
my
own
grief
and
loss
,
is
something
that
I
felt
like
we
need
to
talk
about
this
more
,
because
generational
coping
and
generational
grieving
is
still
very
much
a
thing
,
and
I
think
that
translates
in
how
we
deal
with
our
chronic
illnesses
and
our
fight
to
find
recognition
in
who
we
are
as
people
who
struggle
with
chronic
illnesses
and
trauma
and
all
that
life
throws
at
you
.
Can
you
just
explain
what
that
is
a
little
bit
,
what
that
generational
grief
and
coping
looks
like
and
what
it
is
?
Yeah
,
of
course
.
Speaker 2
6:17
So
my
book
is
a
little
interesting
in
that
it
doesn't
really
fit
nicely
into
any
particular
genre
or
box
.
Yeah
,
so
I
appreciate
you
saying
that
it
definitely
extends
beyond
a
self-help
book
,
because
I
yeah
,
I
would
actually
say
it
is
not
a
self-help
book
.
Of
course
there's
a
lot
of
components
that
deeply
make
you
think
,
but
one
of
my
biggest
talking
points
with
grief
is
that
there
is
no
how-to
,
and
so
self-help
to
me
or
how-to
with
grief
,
I
think
really
undermines
the
complexity
of
it
and
the
individuality
of
it
,
and
so
self-help
to
me
or
how
to
with
grief
,
I
think
really
undermines
the
complexity
of
it
and
the
individuality
of
it
,
and
so
I
felt
like
that
was
too
narrow
.
But
then
the
book
really
is
not
a
memoir
because
there
are
entire
chapters
that
are
dedicated
to
people
who
have
impacted
me
deeply
,
but
I
don't
have
anything
to
do
with
those
stories
.
I
wasn't
even
alive
for
some
of
those
stories
.
Speaker 2
7:02
So
I
penned
the
book
as
a
multi-generational
memoir
and
,
to
be
honest
with
you
,
I
made
that
up
because
I've
never
heard
or
seen
another
book
that's
called
a
multi-generational
memoir
.
Speaker 2
7:13
But
I
felt
like
that
was
so
important
because
,
again
,
when
I
was
looking
at
you
know
why
am
I
struggling
with
my
grief
so
much
,
and
how
do
I
see
the
world
and
where
does
that
come
from
?
Speaker 2
7:22
I
couldn't
help
but
think
about
the
people
who
have
been
the
most
impactful
to
me
,
and
that
is
my
family
right
,
that
is
,
close
family
members
,
close
friends
and
how
have
they
dealt
with
grief
and
how
has
our
family
collectively
made
sense
of
,
or
not
made
sense
of
,
talked
about
or
not
talked
about
,
some
of
the
most
difficult
parts
of
life
?
And
so
I
had
to
kind
of
go
back
and
hash
that
out
and
pay
attention
to
those
things
,
because
,
even
if
I
wasn't
alive
,
the
way
that
some
of
those
events
impacted
you
know
,
my
parents
,
for
example
,
vicariously
impact
me
too
,
and
so
it
gave
me
a
lot
more
understanding
and
context
,
not
just
of
my
family
members
but
also
of
me
,
and
that's
really
important
when
we're
trying
to
figure
out
what
is
important
to
us
and
why
are
we
the
way
that
we
are
and
how
do
we
cope
right
,
what's
going
to
be
helpful
for
us
to
create
a
life
that
we
can
say
we're
satisfied
with
and
proud
of
.
Speaker 1
8:14
Well
,
and
that's
the
thing
is
like
looking
back
at
that
and
looking
at
your
story
,
how
it
translated
to
your
own
physical
challenges
,
was
like
,
oh
okay
,
I
see
myself
in
this
.
Speaker 1
8:28
You
,
at
a
very
young
age
,
got
very
sick
and
you
almost
died
and
because
of
all
the
trauma
from
your
parents
past
and
how
they
dealt
with
that
kind
of
put
pressures
on
you
moving
forward
in
your
own
life
,
and
so
,
if
you
guys
haven't
,
I'm
going
to
encourage
everyone
to
go
read
this
book
and
it's
called
and
she
was
never
the
same
again
because
I
really
truly
made
you
look
at
how
you
deal
with
your
own
losses
,
and
that
could
mean
your
physical
losses
,
that
could
mean
your
loss
of
ability
to
do
something
you
really
want
to
do
.
Speaker 1
9:03
And
this
is
especially
prevalent
with
those
of
us
in
the
chronic
illness
community
,
because
there's
many
times
that
we
have
goals
,
dreams
,
ambitions
and
even
a
dream
job
that
we
can't
do
anymore
because
of
our
chronic
illness
.
And
the
way
that
you
coped
with
it
which
I
thought
many
of
us
do
is
we
tend
to
ignore
it
or
we
push
it
away
until
we
can't
anymore
and
then
we
find
other
coping
mechanisms
to
not
address
what's
really
at
the
core
of
our
grief
,
and
that
was
something
that
hit
me
really
hard
as
someone
who
tends
to
be
a
little
bit
more
on
the
perfectionism
state
,
who
will
always
tell
you
when
you
ask
how
are
you
doing
today
,
I'm
great
,
you
know
,
like
that
automatic
response
when
you're
not
okay
,
and
ignoring
the
pain
,
both
psychologically
,
mentally
,
emotionally
and
physically
,
to
just
continue
with
what
I
think
society
tells
us
we
need
to
continue
with
.
Speaker 1
10:01
Do
you
want
to
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
about
that
and
how
that
has
impacted
you
and
how
others
can
help
find
healthy
coping
mechanisms
for
that
?
Speaker 2
10:11
Certainly
.
Yeah
,
I
love
that
you
just
used
the
word
grief
and
associated
it
with
chronic
illness
,
because
I
feel
like
oftentimes
that
doesn't
happen
,
right
.
People
only
think
that
we
grieve
if
somebody
has
died
,
right
,
and
that
is
just
simply
not
true
.
We
grieve
so
many
different
types
of
things
throughout
life
,
and
so
I
think
it's
incredibly
important
just
to
name
that
,
and
I've
noticed
in
my
clinical
work
,
you
know
,
when
I
help
people
understand
that
they
are
grieving
non-death
losses
,
it's
incredible
to
see
some
light
bulbs
come
on
and
to
be
able
to
give
them
different
language
and
different
perspectives
,
to
really
dig
into
what
that
loss
looks
like
and
to
help
them
see
both
the
gains
and
the
losses
and
the
different
life
experiences
that
we
go
through
has
been
incredible
.
Speaker 2
10:54
So
,
of
course
,
yeah
to
your
point
with
my
own
experience
with
chronic
illness
and
I
detail
this
in
the
book
but
I
had
a
flight
for
life
when
I
was
about
two
and
a
half
and
almost
died
,
and
from
that
point
it
was
respiratory
failure
and
I've
had
respiratory
problems
ever
since
.
Speaker 2
11:09
So
my
whole
life
I've
had
some
flavor
of
some
sort
of
flare
up
right
,
just
something
kind
of
going
on
with
my
respiratory
system
or
it's
affected
other
systems
,
etc
.
Speaker 2
11:19
And
so
I
think
that
is
incredibly
important
,
because
even
though
I'm
very
stubborn
and
very
perfectionistic
and
it's
never
stopped
me
from
doing
anything
I
still
look
at
my
life
very
Navigating Grief and Chronic Illness
Speaker 2
11:29
differently
.
Speaker 2
11:29
And
for
a
young
person
to
have
a
chronic
illness
,
I
think
that
is
also
something
quite
unique
,
in
that
none
of
my
friends
you
know
they
knew
that
I
had
issues
breathing
and
they
were
very
supportive
,
but
they
also
didn't
really
get
it
.
And
so
I
think
when
you're
exposed
to
chronic
illness
,
you
are
experienced
with
the
more
existential
things
in
life
right
,
morality
and
you
are
forced
to
face
them
,
maybe
a
little
sooner
than
others
might
,
and
that
changes
your
perspective
.
And
there
is
both
beautiful
things
in
that
,
but
there
is
also
a
lot
of
loss
and
a
lot
of
grief
in
that
too
,
and
so
one
of
my
intentions
is
just
to
kind
of
draw
light
to
that
and
make
sure
that
people
are
able
to
kind
of
look
at
both
and
hold
both
at
the
same
time
,
because
that's
what
you'll
find
is
typically
these
are
both
and
situations
,
rather
than
either
or
,
and
that's
why
it
was
very
important
to
me
to
have
my
book
start
with
the
word
and
right
,
and
she
was
never
the
same
.
Speaker 1
12:26
I
love
that
title
,
by
the
way
.
When
we
are
thrown
obstacles
in
life
,
we
aren't
the
same
,
but
to
say
,
and
she
was
never
the
same
is
.
I
don't
know
something
about
that
title
.
I
was
like
,
yes
,
you
get
it
.
I
was
like
it
resonates
with
you
when
you've
gone
through
experiences
like
this
.
Speaker 1
12:45
You
know
and
for
someone
like
me
.
I've
gone
through
grief
and
losing
someone
,
um
a
lot
of
people
,
and
it
,
and
this
season
particularly
,
is
very
hard
for
me
to
do
that
and
what
I
noticed
in
these
seasons
is
the
way
that
I
have
grieved
and
carried
and
coped
with
those
losses
translates
into
how
I
grieve
and
cope
and
process
my
own
personal
chronic
illness
grief
and
it
is
not
linear
.
It
is
very
like
up
and
down
.
It
is
very
circular
and
times
.
You
know
,
I
was
just
talking
to
my
husband
about
this
the
other
day
.
I
was
like
I
love
Christmas
time
,
I
love
having
my
trees
,
but
I
decorating
them
is
a
trigger
for
me
and
then
I
start
and
right
,
Right
.
Speaker 2
13:29
Exactly
,
yeah
,
I
love
it
.
And
,
man
,
this
is
painful
now
.
Exactly
.
Speaker 1
13:34
Absolutely
,
and
then
I
also
noticed
the
breakdown
in
my
physical
body
and
grieving
that
as
well
,
and
I
think
that
a
lot
of
us
who
deal
with
chronic
illnesses
,
when
we
are
dealing
with
grief
beyond
our
chronic
illness
,
our
bodies
respond
and
I
don't
know
if
you've
seen
this
in
your
own
practice
or
if
you
can
expand
on
that
with
athletes
even
,
or
with
the
people
that
you've
worked
with
.
That
tends
to
be
for
me
,
a
trigger
is
like
not
dealing
with
or
walking
through
grief
Because
,
like
I
said
,
sometimes
we
don't
deal
with
it
well
and
sometimes
we're
just
walking
through
it
,
but
our
bodies
and
other
things
respond
to
that
.
Speaker 2
14:12
In
my
opinion
and
what
I've
experienced
,
yeah
,
well
,
and
that's
a
bi-directional
relationship
too
,
right
?
I
definitely
had
people
come
to
me
who
are
grieving
and
they're
like
,
oh
my
gosh
,
it
feels
like
I'm
having
a
heart
attack
,
or
you
know
.
They'll
describe
these
physical
symptoms
.
It's
,
it
can
manifest
physically
and
grief
can
intensify
pre-existing
,
you
know
,
physical
or
chronic
conditions
that
you
already
have
.
So
that's
definitely
a
bi-directional
relationship
and
,
again
,
I
don't
think
that
gets
talked
about
enough
.
So
then
you
have
a
lot
of
people
who
feel
very
isolated
and
crazy
,
frankly
,
right
,
like
something
is
really
wrong
with
them
,
and
all
of
these
are
components
of
grief
.
I
love
that
Navigating Chronic Illness and Emotions
Speaker 2
14:51
.
Speaker 2
14:51
Thank
you
for
what
you
said
about
the
title
,
the
only
two
things
that
I
knew
when
I
decided
to
write
the
book
.
Speaker 2
14:56
I
knew
immediately
what
the
title
was
going
to
be
and
what
the
last
sentence
of
the
book
was
going
to
be
.
Those
were
the
two
things
that
I
was
like
,
yes
,
I
have
those
things
down
,
but
that
was
so
intentional
for
me
,
partially
because
of
the
both
and
that
I
just
mentioned
.
But
again
,
I
often
have
people
come
to
me
and
they
say
I'm
still
and
still
is
kind
of
a
bad
word
in
the
grief
world
,
if
you
will
right
I'm
still
grieving
or
I
still
don't
feel
back
to
normal
or
I'm
still
not
myself
,
and
I
burst
their
bubble
a
lot
of
the
time
because
I'm
like
,
yeah
,
that's
not
a
goal
,
that's
not
an
expectation
,
this
thing
that
is
so
significant
being
diagnosed
with
a
chronic
illness
,
for
example
,
it
is
so
significant
You're
not
going
to
return
to
who
you
were
before
.
And
so
I
don't
want
to
set
people
up
to
have
those
sorts
of
expectations
or
to
feel
like
they're
doing
it
wrong
or
they're
behind
or
they're
fundamentally
flawed
in
some
way
because
they
haven't
returned
to
this
previous
version
.
Well
,
that's
expected
.
Speaker 1
15:59
Right
,
and
for
me
,
there's
moments
where
I'm
like
I
feel
broken
and
I'm
like
I
might
be
broken
in
some
senses
,
but
it's
beautifully
broken
in
the
sense
that
I
can
still
carry
on
most
of
the
time
.
But
that's
not
true
for
everyone
,
and
that
sense
of
brokenness
and
that
sense
of
loss
of
who
we
thought
we
would
be
is
so
profound
in
this
and
in
the
other
part
of
this
too
,
and
and
you
can
even
touch
on
this
if
you
want
but
for
me
it's
the
constant
next
diagnosis
,
because
for
a
lot
of
us
within
the
endometriosis
community
and
chronic
illness
community
,
we
don't
have
just
one
chronic
illness
,
we
typically
have
multiple
,
and
so
it's
like
seeking
out
this
pain
,
oh
here's
another
pain
I
have
to
go
chase
,
and
here's
.
And
so
that
grief
behind
and
that
anger
and
that
frustration
and
just
will
I
,
that
hopelessness
at
times
,
will
I
ever
?
Speaker 1
16:54
get
out
of
this
,
will
I
ever
not
feel
like
I'm
chasing
the
next
thing
?
How
do
you
help
people
cope
with
things
like
that
?
Speaker 2
17:02
Yes
,
absolutely
Okay
.
So
you've
mentioned
this
a
little
bit
,
but
if
we
draw
this
out
a
little
bit
more
,
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
reasons
why
people
struggle
so
much
with
certain
diagnoses
or
certain
fixed
things
in
their
life
is
because
of
the
avoidance
and
the
resistance
and
the
hesitation
to
accept
that
it
is
.
And
I
want
to
be
very
careful
in
saying
that
working
on
acceptance
doesn't
mean
that
you
have
to
like
it
or
agree
with
it
or
prefer
it
.
But
there
are
certain
things
that
are
outside
of
our
control
and
it
is
our
job
as
people
who
have
to
cope
,
to
figure
out
what
is
within
our
control
and
what
is
not
.
And
so
sometimes
I
think
working
on
that
relationship
to
minimize
how
much
you
avoid
or
,
you
know
,
reject
,
I
think
that
can
be
really
,
really
helpful
in
dealing
with
the
ups
and
downs
that
come
with
chronic
illness
.
So
I
can
even
use
myself
as
an
example
.
Speaker 2
17:55
When
I
was
younger
,
I
think
I
struggled
so
much
because
I
was
very
avoidant
,
you
know
people
would
say
,
and
I
played
sports
right
,
and
since
I'd
be
struggling
,
you
know
having
an
asthma
attack
on
the
side
,
basically
blue
and
my
coaches
were
like
,
can
you
stop
,
get
out
of
this
drill
?
And
I
was
like
?
Absolutely
not
.
And
looking
back
on
that
,
some
of
that
stubbornness
and
that
refusal
to
accept
ended
up
making
things
worse
for
me
,
right
?
Because
I
pushed
when
I
shouldn't
and
I
was
not
letting
anyone
help
me
.
So
I
was
isolating
myself
more
and
,
you
know
,
I
had
more
shame
because
I
was
trying
to
control
things
that
I
couldn't
.
And
so
now
you
know
,
doing
all
this
work
of
course
my
training
has
helped
immensely
with
this
.
Speaker 2
18:37
But
I
think
now
I'm
at
this
place
where
I
history
,
you
know
I
will
always
kind
of
be
associated
my
nickname
was
Wheezy
,
like
that
will
always
kind
of
be
part
of
who
I
am
now
,
and
the
less
I
avoid
that
,
the
less
that
I
resist
that
notion
,
the
easier
it
is
for
me
to
cope
too
.
So
,
on
the
acceptance
front
,
you
know
it
allows
you
to
live
more
intentional
and
I
think
it
allows
you
to
be
more
present
,
focused
,
because
I
don't
always
know
day
to
day
how
are
my
lungs
going
to
be
today
?
Am
I
going
to
have
a
hard
day
?
Is
something
going
to
hurt
?
I
don't
always
know
that
.
I
know
how
to
deal
with
those
days
when
I
don't
feel
great
and
I
know
how
to
really
embrace
those
days
when
I
feel
incredible
,
right
.
So
I
think
that
too
just
kind
of
allows
you
to
not
feel
quite
as
chained
down
and
certainly
not
as
anxious
and
trying
to
anticipate
and
predict
the
future
,
because
it
doesn't
.
It
doesn't
actually
help
anything
.
You
can
worry
all
you
want
.
It
doesn't
actually
prevent
or
make
anything
better
.
Speaker 1
19:39
But
as
hard
as
we
try
to
make
it
better
and
we
do
that
,
and
I
see
that
in
myself
.
You
know
something
you
said
in
your
book
,
and
I'm
probably
paraphrasing
this
.
You
talked
about
hating
your
body
for
what
it
couldn't
do
often
lied
about
the
pain
you
were
in
and
finding
ways
to
punish
your
body
without
showing
others
that
you
were
human
.
Speaker 1
19:59
And
I
,
as
someone
who
does
that
,
still
sometimes
I
have
to
catch
myself
,
and
something
that
is
the
hardest
thing
to
do
when
you
live
with
chronic
illnesses
and
I
think
it's
just
being
human
,
honestly
,
and
because
we're
in
the
society
that
we
are
,
we
push
things
aside
because
we
aren't
expected
to
have
grace
for
ourselves
.
Sometimes
We'll
say
it
,
but
then
we
don't
follow
through
with
having
grace
for
ourselves
and
treating
ourselves
like
human
beings
.
And
something
that
I've
had
to
work
on
is
,
if
I
wouldn't
expect
others
to
work
and
fight
through
their
extreme
pain
,
why
would
I
do
that
to
myself
?
Why
would
I
not
treat
myself
with
integrity
?
And
that
is
something
I
have
struggled
with
so
much
.
But
that
part
of
the
book
I
was
like
oh
gosh
,
well
,
like
that
just
hit
me
like
a
brick
,
because
I
still
do
that
to
this
day
sometimes
.
Speaker 2
20:49
Yes
,
one
.
You
had
mentioned
perfectionism
earlier
,
and
I
mean
there's
an
entire
chapter
in
the
book
about
perfectionism
,
because
I
feel
like
there's
so
much
grief
and
loss
inherent
in
perfectionism
and
that's
not
often
a
connection
that
people
make
.
But
I
think
that
adds
to
this
too
,
because
,
as
people
who
struggle
with
perfectionism
,
it's
like
OK
,
but
I'm
.
That
adds
to
this
too
,
because
as
people
who
struggle
with
perfectionism
,
it's
like
okay
,
but
I'm
the
exception
.
So
,
yeah
,
I
can
say
all
these
things
and
everyone
else
should
do
this
,
but
I
have
to
figure
out
a
different
way
,
or
I
have
to
,
you
know
,
be
successful
without
doing
a
,
b
,
c
and
d
,
because
that
makes
me
more
perfect
,
or
I
don't
need
x
,
y
and
z
.
So
I
think
that
can
make
it
very
,
very
complicated
.
And
then
again
,
that
sense
of
what
are
we
in
control
over
and
what
are
we
not
in
control
over
,
that
can
make
the
relationship
that
we
have
with
ourselves
very
,
very
complex
and
very
complicated
.
Speaker 1
21:36
And
of
course
,
grief
is
interwoven
with
all
of
that
and
anger
,
like
I
feel
like
there's
a
lot
of
anger
sometimes
towards
myself
,
and
it's
how
we
process
and
cope
with
that
anger
that
can
make
a
difference
too
,
because
whether
you
acknowledge
it
or
you
walk
through
anger
knowing
that
it's
okay
to
be
angry
at
your
body
at
times
or
at
the
situation
that
you're
in
.
Speaker 1
22:01
How
do
we
get
out
of
that
?
What
is
a
healthy
way
for
those
of
us
who
have
that
anger
towards
our
body
or
towards
the
trauma
that
we've
experienced
because
of
what's
going
on
in
our
body
?
How
do
we
process
and
cope
with
that
?
What
are
some
healthy
ways
to
do
that
?
Speaker 2
22:14
Yes
,
it
is
.
Yes
,
it
is
Well
.
And
I
will
also
say
I
don't
think
we
need
to
give
anger
a
bad
rap
either
.
I
think
that's
a
very
appropriate
and
adaptive
emotion
in
this
situation
.
Right
,
you
have
a
chronic
illness
,
you
have
something
that
takes
you
away
from
something
that
you
really
wanted
to
pursue
,
or
shoot
,
you
know
you
just
have
a
bad
day
and
your
plans
get
changed
.
It's
okay
.
It's
okay
to
be
angry
.
That
is
appropriate
,
that
makes
sense
in
that
situation
.
Speaker 2
22:41
I
often
encourage
people
to
go
a
little
bit
deeper
too
,
just
in
terms
of
what
is
underneath
some
of
that
anger
.
The
anger
iceberg
is
one
of
my
very
favorite
things
to
use
in
therapy
.
So
,
basically
,
you
know
,
if
you
picture
an
iceberg
,
you
have
what
you
see
.
If
you're
standing
on
a
boat
and
you're
looking
at
the
tip
of
the
iceberg
,
that's
what
you
see
,
and
so
oftentimes
that
is
anger
.
And
in
our
society
,
anger
is
often
a
more
acceptable
emotion
than
other
more
vulnerable
emotions
maybe
,
and
so
that's
the
tip
,
that's
what
you
see
.
But
we
know
that
when
you
go
under
the
surface
and
you
really
look
at
what's
underneath
,
it's
huge
,
right
,
yeah
,
and
there's
so
many
emotions
in
there
.
Speaker 2
23:19
So
I
often
ask
people
what's
under
the
tip
of
your
iceberg
,
and
when
we
think
about
anger
,
you
know
,
in
this
situation
,
you
wake
up
and
all
your
plans
get
changed
because
you
just
don't
feel
well
.
Speaker 2
23:30
That's
sadness
,
that
is
great
,
yeah
,
that
is
great
.
That
is
loss
,
that
is
fear
,
that
is
,
you
know
,
there's
guilt
possibly
,
even
if
it's
not
appropriate
guilt
necessarily
,
you
still
might
feel
it
because
you
have
to
change
plans
A
,
b
and
C
,
and
so
I
think
that's
another
strategy
that
I
really
want
people
to
consider
is
what
is
underneath
some
of
that
anger
?
I
think
some
self-reflection
too
.
Are
you
handling
that
anger
in
a
way
that
you
feel
is
adaptive
and
healthy
for
you
?
There's
so
many
different
outlets
,
and
who
am
I
or
anyone
else
to
say
what's
right
and
what's
wrong
,
but
just
being
able
to
self-reflect
and
figure
out
,
am
I
handling
this
in
a
way
that
works
for
me
?
And
if
I'm
not
,
what
do
I
want
to
do
with
that
?
So
,
I
think
,
being
willing
to
ask
yourself
hard
questions
and
if
you're
recognizing
that
you
need
to
do
some
work
and
figure
something
out
,
take
those
risks
?
Interpreting Medical Trauma and Familial Influence
Speaker 1
24:25
How
do
people
I
mean
,
we've
all
walked
through
trauma
and
a
lot
of
us
have
dealt
with
medical
trauma
what
are
some
signs
of
on
dealt
with
medical
trauma
?
Because
I
know
that
for
me
I
didn't
realize
I
was
walking
through
medical
trauma
until
years
later
.
But
I
look
back
and
I
see
those
those
little
inklings
of
like
that
was
medical
trauma
.
That
was
me
not
realizing
that
because
of
this
past
experience
in
healthcare
I
responded
this
way
or
I
avoided
going
to
the
doctor
this
time
when
I
should
have
gone
because
of
past
experiences
.
That's
how
I
dealt
with
it
and
that's
how
I
noticed
it
.
But
what
are
things
that
you
see
?
Maybe
some
patients
that
come
in
that
have
maybe
some
medical
trauma
ways
that
they
kind
of
avoid
and
that
they
need
to
maybe
address
it
.
Speaker 2
25:16
Totally
.
Yeah
.
It's
so
funny
too
,
because
so
earlier
I
said
I
like
that
we're
using
this
word
grief
being
associated
with
things
that
are
not
just
death
,
right
,
Right
,
we
do
.
We
have
to
give
people
language
and
context
and
allow
them
to
think
about
these
ideas
through
different
perspectives
and
vantage
points
,
and
what
you
just
said
reminded
me
.
So
I
was
getting
my
master's
degree
and
I
had
an
incredible
supervisor
.
She
was
so
wonderful
and
we
were
talking
a
little
bit
about
my
medical
history
and
I
had
never
called
it
trauma
.
I
didn't
see
it
that
way
.
It
was
just
like
,
yeah
,
this
is
just
something
I
went
through
and
something
I
continue
to
go
through
and
it
is
what
it
is
Right
.
And
she
used
the
word
trauma
and
I
was
honestly
offended
.
I
was
like
,
no
,
I've
never
been
through
any
trauma
.
What
?
No
,
no
,
and
I
will
never
forget
that
reaction
.
I
was
kind
of
angry
with
her
and
she
was
like
,
ok
,
so
tell
me
how
.
This
isn't
trauma
.
It's
like
okay
.
So
again
,
for
giving
me
that
language
and
giving
me
that
perspective
and
that
vantage
point
was
amazing
,
and
so
part
of
how
I
would
answer
this
question
is
give
yourself
permission
to
explore
and
to
kind
of
consider
it
From
a
trauma
lens
.
Speaker 2
26:30
I
often
think
about
avoidance
.
Speaker 2
26:32
How
much
does
an
experience
that
you
have
had
in
your
life
make
you
hesitate
or
make
you
push
things
aside
or
make
you
fearful
of
things
in
a
way
where
you
know
you'll
take
a
route
that's
a
little
longer
,
yeah
,
or
you'll
do
something
to
truly
not
have
to
confront
something
.
Speaker 2
26:49
And
I
think
that
awareness
is
oftentimes
something
where
it's
like
,
yeah
,
there's
something
here
.
I
also
think
another
huge
sign
is
just
intrusive
thoughts
.
You
know
,
how
often
do
you
as
much
as
you
want
to
push
it
aside
does
it
always
seem
to
find
its
way
back
.
So
I'll
see
this
a
lot
,
with
people
who
will
tell
me
I
just
think
about
a
flare
up
happening
all
the
time
and
I
can't
stop
thinking
about
.
You
know
what
this
doctor
said
to
me
,
or
what
this
doctor
didn't
say
to
me
,
or
you
know
this
experience
in
the
lab
or
when
I
was
getting
imaging
,
or
whatever
it
may
be
.
So
I
think
that
those
intrusive
thoughts
that
come
up
when
you're
not
expecting
it
,
when
they
aren't
wanted
,
and
if
you
have
a
really
hard
time
pushing
some
of
that
away
,
we're
working
through
it
.
Let's
say
,
probably
not
pushing
things
away
,
but
working
through
it
.
That
is
also
a
huge
indication
.
Speaker 1
27:38
I
push
it
away
.
Sometimes
that's
future
Alana
problems
,
and
then
it
gets
to
future
.
Alana
and
I'm
like
,
I
don't
like
pastelana
right
now
.
Speaker 2
27:46
Yes
,
yes
,
one
.
It's
interesting
Again
,
this
is
a
both
and
for
me
,
because
there
are
times
where
we
do
we
do
have
to
push
it
aside
,
right
,
like
we
have
our
responsibility
or
we
have
something
where
it's
like
this
is
just
not
the
time
.
So
I
do
think
there's
a
time
and
a
place
for
some
compartmentalization
and
knowing
when
we
can
turn
that
volume
up
and
deal
with
it
or
when
we
need
to
turn
it
down
.
But
I
think
chronic
avoidance
,
chronic
pushing
away
,
certainly
leads
to
more
distress
over
time
.
Speaker 1
28:16
Absolutely
.
Yeah
,
it
does
,
and
I've
experienced
that
.
Something
that
you
talk
a
lot
about
in
your
book
is
your
family
and
the
experiences
that
you've
had
.
They've
had
,
therefore
,
you've
had
.
We've
kind
of
talked
about
this
a
little
bit
.
Speaker 1
28:30
But
when
those
of
us
in
the
chronic
illness
community
are
walking
through
some
real
challenges
and
we
have
family
members
that
don't
understand
it
or
they
deal
with
it
differently
,
how
can
that
affect
us
?
Because
that
to
me
,
you
know
,
we
talk
about
grief
and
we
talk
about
how
different
generations
handle
things
.
For
instance
,
a
lot
of
generations
before
ours
didn't
talk
about
their
periods
.
They
didn't
talk
about
their
hysterectomies
or
their
pain
,
so
we
didn't
even
have
some
of
that
family
history
.
But
then
when
we
had
it
,
it
was
normalized
to
have
painful
periods
.
It
was
normalized
to
just
push
through
,
or
you're
being
lazy
,
get
up
,
push
through
.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
this
that
we
deal
with
and
you
talk
a
lot
about
this
in
your
book
.
Can
you
kind
of
walk
us
through
that
a
little
bit
,
because
I
mean
,
gosh
,
that
one
was
huge
for
me
to
acknowledge
that
because
of
my
parents'
generation
and
grandparents'
generation
and
what
their
grief
and
how
they've
processed
is
how
they
kind
of
treated
me
in
mine
.
Speaker 2
29:34
Yes
,
yeah
,
so
there's
a
few
different
chapters
throughout
the
book
that
address
these
kinds
of
things
,
and
I
just
felt
like
this
was
so
important
to
point
out
because
,
yes
,
I
have
my
experience
with
respiratory
issues
,
but
I
also
thought
it
was
important
to
look
at
some
of
the
family
members
who
I've
been
closest
to
,
who
have
struggled
with
their
own
chronic
illnesses
some
still
alive
and
some
who
have
died
and
so
being
able
to
look
at
.
I
have
a
huge
family
.
There's
a
lot
of
moving
pieces
,
so
I'm
going
to
look
at
some
of
the
family
members
who
have
,
and
because
of
that
and
because
of
my
experiences
with
loss
throughout
my
life
,
that
was
always
something
that
drew
me
truly
,
that
drew
me
to
my
field
and
drew
me
to
my
study
.
You
know
,
it
kind
of
makes
sense
that
I've
fallen
into
these
things
,
because
everyone
does
breathe
differently
Navigating Grief and Parenting Perspectives
Speaker 2
30:16
.
Again
,
similarly
,
that's
why
I
wanted
to
write
a
book
that
was
not
a
how-to
Right
,
because
what
works
for
you
is
probably
not
going
to
work
for
me
,
is
probably
probably
not
going
to
work
for
any
of
the
people
listening
to
this
,
and
there
might
be
similarities
,
of
course
,
but
it's
definitely
not
a
one-size-fits-all
and
that
can
be
really
challenging
,
and
I
speak
to
this
,
for
example
,
in
the
chapters
where
I
talk
about
my
grandma
dying
,
there
were
even
times
where
I
have
this
knowledge
and
I
have
this
insight
,
but
in
my
head
my
grandpa
wasn't
handling
her
death
the
way
that
I
wanted
him
to
,
and
first
of
all
,
that's
not
my
call
,
right
,
but
he
seemingly
was
just
so
okay
and
that
bothered
me
.
Speaker 2
30:59
I
wanted
to
see
more
,
and
I
don't
really
know
why
,
but
that
was
not
my
place
,
and
so
I
really
had
to
figure
out
.
Speaker 2
31:05
You
know
,
what
he's
doing
is
do
,
even
if
I
don't
agree
with
it
or
don't
get
it
.
You
know
,
again
,
how
can
I
accept
that
,
even
if
it's
not
what
I
would
prefer
?
And
so
I
think
,
anytime
you're
dealing
with
some
sort
of
loss
and
it's
affecting
more
than
just
one
person
,
those
are
really
things
to
consider
.
And
so
I
try
to
document
that
and
I
try
to
kind
of
send
a
message
and
give
you
different
perspectives
,
to
see
how
do
individual
needs
start
to
compete
with
other
people's
individual
needs
,
and
then
what
are
collective
needs
?
And
again
,
this
is
so
complex
and
so
messy
,
but
that's
kind
of
exactly
the
point
of
addressing
it
and
talking
about
it
is
,
yes
,
there
is
no
straight
answer
,
but
being
self-aware
and
being
other
aware
and
being
able
to
communicate
and
have
discussions
about
some
of
these
things
that
are
really
challenging
and
,
quote
unquote
,
untalkable
.
I
think
that
is
what
allows
us
to
figure
out
how
to
hang
on
and
move
through
the
choppy
waters
.
Speaker 1
32:16
You
know
,
one
of
the
biggest
fears
that
I
have
as
someone
that
has
kids
and
I
have
a
chronic
illness
and
they
see
me
walk
through
the
pain
.
I
mean
I'm
even
hearing
my
daughters
recently
cause
I've
had
so
many
pain
flares
with
my
jaw
and
everything
and
they're
like
mom
,
your
jaw
is
always
hurting
.
I'm
like
I
know
,
I
don't
,
I
don't
,
I
can't
fix
it
.
I
was
like
I
I'm
going
to
try
to
continue
showing
up
and
I'm
going
to
,
you
know
,
but
one
of
my
biggest
fears
is
the
impact
that
this
is
having
on
them
and
I
think
,
as
someone
with
chronic
illnesses
,
it's
like
so
many
of
us
have
this
fear
and
a
lot
of
people
choose
not
to
have
kids
because
they
don't
want
to
put
their
kids
through
this
.
Speaker 1
32:57
And
that's
valid
and
that
is
reasonable
and
and
I
understand
that
because
it
is
hard
to
be
cognizant
of
am
I
doing
something
to
affect
my
child
negatively
in
remembering
the
way
that
I
have
coped
with
this
disease
and
how
do
we
address
this
?
Like
I
feel
like
this
is
something
that
we
don't
hardly
ever
talk
about
.
Speaker 2
33:19
Yes
,
I
mean
my
gut
instinct
.
Hearing
you
say
that
is
to
make
sure
that
you're
not
putting
misplaced
pressure
on
yourself
.
You
don't
have
all
the
answers
right
,
that's
okay
.
I
also
think
about
using
,
I
guess
,
extreme
words
in
the
language
.
So
,
for
example
,
you
know
,
you
said
,
mom
,
your
jaw
is
always
hurting
.
Speaker 2
33:39
There
are
moments
where
it
isn't
,
and
I
think
that
those
sorts
of
ideas
or
messages
are
really
important
to
pick
up
on
and
to
spread
my
grandma
again
.
This
is
covered
heavily
in
the
book
,
but
my
grandma
pride
and
she
was
so
good
about
,
you
know
,
like
today
the
pain's
only
a
two
and
usually
it's
a
set
like
she
was
just
so
good
at
holding
that
both
in
the
end
and
seeing
both
the
gains
and
the
losses
at
the
same
time
in
a
way
that
I
don't
think
I'll
ever
be
that
good
at
it
.
She
was
just
amazing
,
absolutely
incredible
at
that
.
So
I
think
that's
important
too
is
just
to
kind
of
pull
yourself
back
from
that
Never
,
always
,
or
just
sort
of
those
extreme
ends
of
any
spectrum
and
try
to
find
your
way
in
the
gray
.
Speaker 2
34:33
And
I
also
think
too
,
sometimes
I'll
chat
with
parents
who
want
to
shield
their
kids
from
everything
or
they
don't
want
to
express
certain
emotions
around
their
kids
,
and
I'm
a
firm
believer
that
you
still
have
to
teach
them
how
to
deal
with
pain
.
You
still
have
to
teach
them
how
to
deal
with
grief
and
with
loss
.
And
that's
one
thing
I
commend
my
parents
over
and
over
and
over
for
is
they
never
shield
?
They
were
developmentally
appropriate
with
me
,
right
,
but
they
never
shielded
me
and
they
tried
to
teach
me
Right
.
So
when
I
was
at
my
first
funeral
,
you
know
they
tried
to
help
me
understand
to
the
best
of
my
ability
as
a
10
year
old
what
was
going
on
,
and
that
was
critical
,
because
I
want
to
know
,
you
know
,
how
do
you
deal
with
sadness
,
how
do
you
deal
with
anger
,
because
if
I
can
see
that
done
adaptively
when
I'm
a
child
for
people
around
me
,
that
helps
me
figure
out
how
I'm
going
to
self-regulate
too
.
Speaker 1
35:25
That's
something
that
,
you
know
,
my
husband
and
I
have
been
very
intentional
about
with
our
girls
,
and
something
that
I
think
we
need
to
reflect
on
ourselves
sometimes
.
Better
is
that
it's
okay
to
talk
through
your
grieving
.
It's
okay
to
express
your
grieving
in
different
ways
.
I
lost
my
brother
when
I
was
10
years
old
and
he
was
15
.
He
died
suddenly
,
and
so
for
me
,
I've
had
to
see
my
parents
grieve
and
I've
had
to
walk
through
grief
as
a
young
child
,
and
I
think
when
you
have
both
perspectives
of
that
,
it
really
highlights
the
need
to
not
stay
in
a
space
of
loathing
grief
but
accepting
that
it's
okay
to
walk
through
it
and
that
it's
going
to
be
hard
sometimes
,
and
sometimes
you
won't
even
know
you're
grieving
.
Sometimes
it's
just
kind
of
it's
there
you
know
and
.
Speaker 1
36:19
I've
experienced
that
in
both
you
know
,
losing
someone
and
in
my
chronic
illnesses
,
because
they
kind
of
mirror
each
other
in
a
lot
of
ways
walking
through
and
being
okay
with
,
okay
,
my
body
is
not
serving
me
well
right
now
,
but
tomorrow
is
another
day
.
Like
the
sun
is
going
to
come
out
tomorrow
Annie
said
it
best
,
like
you
know
,
but
I've
,
I've
really
experienced
that
and
I
do
think
that
there
is
and
I'm
not
perfect
at
it
and
I
always
am
still
working
at
this
but
like
I
think
there's
moments
of
myself
being
like
I'm
accepting
of
this
and
then
moments
where
I'm
not
and
I
can
tell
a
difference
in
the
way
that
I
process
life
and
how
I
manage
walking
through
life
.
Speaker 2
37:00
Oh
,
yes
,
yeah
,
and
again
,
I
think
that
is
okay
.
This
stuff
is
really
hard
.
So
you
know
I
said
earlier
,
take
some
of
that
pressure
off
of
yourself
Embracing Compassion and Flexibility in Adversity
Speaker 2
37:09
.
I'd
also
encourage
the
same
thing
Show
yourself
a
little
bit
of
compassion
If
there's
moments
where
you
are
just
really
angry
or
really
sad
or
feel
really
powerless
.
That
all
sounds
like
very
appropriate
and
normal
reactions
to
some
of
what
people
who
chronic
illness
live
with
and
go
through
.
Speaker 1
37:25
Yeah
.
Speaker 2
37:26
So
please
practice
,
you
know
,
some
kindness
and
some
compassion
along
the
way
Again
.
Even
being
able
to
demonstrate
that
to
your
kids
,
that's
huge
.
Speaker 1
37:35
Yeah
,
and
it's
hard
,
you
know
,
there
are
moments
where
they're
driving
me
nuts
and
I'm
in
pain
and
I'm
like
I
want
to
have
outbursts
,
Like
I
have
to
remind
myself
that
this
is
not
their
fault
,
Like
this
is
no
one's
fault
and
and
they
deserve
the
same
amount
of
grace
and
I
deserve
the
same
amount
of
grace
,
you
know
,
and
and
that's
really
hard
,
Although
I
did
find
the
other
day
there's
this
place
in
Greeley
here
in
Colorado
,
that
they
have
rage
rooms
and
I'm
like
this
is
amazing
for
chronic
illness
communities
.
We
need
they
have
rage
rooms
and
I'm
like
this
is
amazing
for
chronic
illness
communities
.
We
need
to
have
rage
rooms
everywhere
.
We
just
break
things
,
we
just
rip
paintings
,
you
know
,
because
wouldn't
that
that's
like
a
good
,
healthy
way
of
letting
it
all
out
sometimes
.
So
if
you
have
a
rage
room
near
you
,
I
highly
encourage
you
to
seek
it
out
.
Speaker 2
38:22
Yes
,
yes
,
and
again
,
I
you
know
I
love
that
because
we
don't
want
to
demonize
anger
.
I
think
that
anger
oftentimes
serves
a
very
important
function
and
of
course
,
too
much
of
any
emotion
can
be
problematic
.
So
you
know
you
want
to
check
that
too
.
But
it
doesn't
need
to
be
demonized
.
And
neither
does
grief
right
,
neither
does
grief
.
Speaker 2
38:43
Grief
and
this
is
a
huge
part
of
my
book
that
I
refer
to
in
so
many
different
areas
,
but
this
concept
of
gains
and
losses
is
just
huge
to
me
and
I
think
about
grief
in
many
ways
as
a
companion
,
right
like
it
is
.
It
is
unwanted
,
it
is
not
a
companion
that
I
would
actively
invite
into
my
home
,
but
once
it
is
there
,
it
is
there
and
yes
,
it
it
.
That
connection
or
that
companionship
changes
shape
,
it
looks
different
over
time
,
but
it
is
there
.
And
I
think
when
you
can
just
kind
of
integrate
that
into
your
life
and
know
that
it
is
there
,
sometimes
it
will
be
more
present
than
others
.
I
do
.
I
think
that
allows
you
just
to
kind
of
see
both
sides
.
Speaker 2
39:19
I
think
about
the
death
of
my
grandma
and
I
will
never
,
I
have
accepted
that
.
I
understand
,
right
that
she
is
dead
.
I
don't
like
that
.
I'm
never
going
to
like
that
.
I'm
never
going
to
prefer
or
want
that
.
But
I
also
recognize
that
that
relationship
that
I
have
with
grief
now
and
how
intensely
I
feel
that
at
times
,
that's
also
really
beautiful
,
as
painful
as
it
is
to
say
,
because
it
speaks
to
how
deep
my
relationship
was
with
her
.
Speaker 2
39:45
Yeah
,
and
how
much
meant
to
me
.
Yeah
,
I
wouldn't
feel
that
deeply
right
,
I
would
not
feel
so
broken
at
times
,
had
I
not
loved
her
to
the
extent
that
I
did
and
do
,
and
so
,
similarly
with
chronic
illness
right
,
even
when
you're
kind
of
functionality
of
your
body
or
missed
opportunities
.
Part
of
that
is
also
beautiful
,
because
it's
like
wow
,
look
at
these
aspirations
,
look
at
these
goals
,
and
then
your
task
is
how
can
I
still
have
some
of
that
?
You
know
,
how
do
I
?
What
are
my
accommodations
?
What
can
I
still
do
with
that
too
,
even
if
I
have
to
change
course
a
little
bit
to
still
live
as
close
to
the
life
that
I
can
or
that
I
would
?
Speaker 1
40:26
Right
,
yeah
,
I
mean
,
I
feel
like
that's
something
that
we
oftentimes
face
,
and
I
mean
there's
so
many
other
elements
of
especially
endometriosis
that
we
could
always
go
into
,
but
I
think
that's
a
huge
part
of
it
.
What
are
some
practical
ways
people
can
balance
the
need
for
self-compassion
with
the
responsibilities
they
feel
they
can't
escape
,
because
they
sometimes
don't
align
?
Speaker 2
40:51
Yeah
,
yeah
,
definitely
,
I
mean
really
the
first
thing
that
comes
.
I
guess
a
couple
of
things
that
come
to
mind
.
One
is
the
accepted
piece
that
we've
been
talking
about
.
I
think
that's
a
big
theme
.
Speaker 2
41:00
I
also
think
too
about
mindfulness
and
the
temporary
nature
or
kind
of
the
fleeting
nature
of
all
of
our
emotions
,
good
ones
and
bad
ones
.
Speaker 2
41:10
So
I
think
kind
of
pulling
yourself
again
away
from
that
extreme
and
I
think
about
this
too
,
when
I
have
a
really
challenging
grief
day
,
for
whatever
reason
,
I
know
this
logically
,
you
know
,
even
in
a
few
hours
I
might
feel
differently
,
even
in
a
tomorrow
I
might
feel
differently
.
Even
in
a
tomorrow
I
might
feel
differently
.
So
I
think
kind
of
recognizing
that
a
lot
of
that
is
leading
and
then
to
kind
of
zoom
out
and
see
big
picture
.
Because
,
again
,
when
we're
in
those
moments
it's
it
can
be
really
hard
to
have
self
compassion
because
it
just
feels
like
we're
in
this
endless
abyss
,
right
,
and
so
I
think
kind
of
zooming
out
and
seeing
big
picture
as
well
can
be
really
helpful
.
What
parts
of
the
story
are
you
not
telling
yourself
or
not
paying
attention
to
?
What
details
are
you
maybe
getting
too
fixated
on
in
a
way
that
doesn't
paint
the
full
picture
?
I
think
some
of
those
cognitive
strategies
can
be
quite
helpful
too
.
Speaker 1
42:00
Yeah
,
absolutely
.
I'm
like
this
is
making
me
think
through
it
,
so
it's
fine
,
I'll
deal
with
this
in
just
a
minute
.
How
can
we
redefine
success
and
accomplishment
in
a
way
that
honors
our
limitations
of
physical
and
our
emotional
selves
?
Speaker 2
42:26
and
I
speak
to
this
at
several
points
in
the
book
but
giving
myself
permission
and
working
to
be
a
more
flexible
person
.
As
an
incredibly
high
achiever
and
a
perfectionist
,
I
would
say
I
was
pretty
high
in
the
rigidity
scale
Growing
up
.
I
wanted
things
to
be
done
just
one
way
and
there
was
only
one
right
way
and
all
of
that
good
stuff
.
And
so
I
think
,
flexibility
,
giving
yourself
permission
to
change
your
own
mind
,
giving
yourself
permission
to
reshape
your
goals
I
talk
about
this
a
lot
with
athletes
.
I
have
worked
with
several
athletes
who
have
career-ending
injuries
and
it's
like
nope
,
my
sport
is
my
life
.
What
do
I
do
after
this
?
So
the
more
ability
you
have
to
be
flexible
and
to
kind
of
redefine
things
and
give
yourself
permission
to
redefine
things
,
redefine
your
values
,
redefine
concepts
,
like
I
think
about
mental
toughness
and
what
do
we
do
if
we
can
look
at
that
a
little
differently
and
redefine
it
?
You
know
how
does
that
open
up
new
opportunities
for
us
.
So
I
think
those
are
those
are
the
things
that
are
top
of
mind
for
me
.
Speaker 1
43:19
Yeah
,
yeah
,
Grace
,
and
I
do
.
I
have
to
say
for
me
one
thing
I'll
and
I
say
this
in
almost
every
episode
loss
of
myself
at
times
is
finding
people
who
can
help
bring
me
back
and
encourage
me
and
help
me
and
grieve
with
me
.
That's
been
really
key
too
.
Speaker 2
43:55
Just
to
be
,
yeah
,
just
to
be
right
.
Oftentimes
people
don't
need
to
do
anything
and
with
grief
,
oftentimes
they
can't
do
anything
that's
really
going
to
make
you
feel
better
.
But
just
being
alongside
because
loss
is
just
so
lonely
and
so
isolating
and
,
yeah
,
I
couldn't
agree
more
when
you
have
a
couple
of
people
who
can
be
with
you
in
it
,
even
if
they're
not
doing
anything
,
that
is
in
and
of
itself
an
intervention
.
They
are
doing
something
just
like
being
alongside
you
.
Yeah
,
that's
huge
.
Yeah
,
that's
huge
.
White
,
making
the
untalkable
things
more
talkable
again
.
That's
one
of
the
huge
reasons
why
I
wrote
this
book
is
to
kind
of
shed
some
light
on
some
of
the
things
that
people
do
shy
away
from
and
just
help
them
understand
.
You
know
,
there's
really
,
there's
really
some
some
game
.
There's
a
lot
of
games
to
be
taken
from
addressing
some
of
these
things
.
That
doesn't
mean
it's
not
hard
,
but
it's
certainly
worth
it
.
Speaker 1
44:48
Absolutely
.
Exploring Grief, Trauma, and Resilience
Speaker 1
44:49
Thank
you
so
much
,
dr
Trujillo
,
for
sharing
your
insights
and
your
expertise
.
Your
book
and
she
Was
Never
the
Same
Again
is
a
powerful
reminder
that
the
interconnectedness
of
grief
and
trauma
and
resilience
,
and
how
much
we
can
stand
to
gain
by
exploring
these
deeply
human
experiences
,
are
impactful
,
and
so
thank
you
for
,
first
of
all
,
writing
the
book
,
but
secondly
,
for
joining
me
today
at
the
table
and
just
sharing
your
vulnerability
with
us
and
your
insights
,
because
I'm
going
to
need
more
of
those
probably
Absolutely
.
Speaker 2
45:21
I
appreciate
you
having
me
here
and
letting
me
join
your
community
and
,
yeah
,
this
has
been
wonderful
.
Speaker 1
45:28
So
,
thank
you
and
until
next
time
.
Everyone
continue
advocating
for
you
and
for
those
that
you
love
.