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Mallory Oxendine, a licensed professional counselor and certified sex therapist, shares powerful insights about maintaining intimacy while navigating the challenges of endometriosis and chronic illness. She offers compassionate guidance on reframing our expectations of sex, communicating with partners, and finding connection despite pain.
• Sex is inherently complex—even without chronic pain—so remove the pressure to make it “easy”
• Expand your definition of intimacy beyond penetrative intercourse using the “playground metaphor”
• Negative self-talk about your body’s limitations creates additional barriers to intimacy
• Partners can best support by slowing down, being present, and checking in regularly
• Both partners’ feelings about intimacy challenges are valid and important
• Grieving together about chronic illness can create profound emotional intimacy
• Setting the right environment (lighting, temperature, comfort) helps you stay present
• Grounding techniques like the “take five” method can prevent dissociation during intimacy
• Communication before, during, and after intimacy is essential for both partners
• “I can’t truly say yes if I can’t say no”—permission to decline leads to more authentic consent
Website endobattery.com
Introduction to EndoBattery
Speaker 1
0:02
Welcome
to
EndoBattery
,
where
I
share
my
journey
with
endometriosis
and
chronic
illness
,
while
learning
and
growing
along
the
way
.
This
podcast
is
not
a
substitute
for
medical
advice
,
but
a
supportive
space
to
provide
community
and
valuable
information
so
you
never
have
to
face
this
journey
alone
.
We
embrace
a
range
of
perspectives
that
may
not
always
align
with
our
own
.
Believing
that
open
dialogue
helps
us
grow
and
gain
new
tools
always
align
with
our
own
.
Believing
that
open
dialogue
helps
us
grow
and
gain
new
tools
.
Join
me
as
I
share
stories
of
strength
,
resilience
and
hope
,
from
personal
experiences
to
expert
insights
.
I'm
your
host
,
alana
,
and
this
is
EndoBattery
charging
our
lives
when
endometriosis
drains
us
.
Welcome
back
to
EndoBattery
.
Grab
your
cup
of
coffee
or
your
cup
of
tea
and
join
me
at
the
table
.
Speaker 1
0:47
Today
,
I'm
joined
at
the
table
by
my
guest
,
mallory
Oxendine
,
who
is
a
licensed
professional
counselor
,
a
certified
sex
therapist
and
is
certified
in
EMDR
therapy
.
She
focuses
her
work
on
sexuality-informed
and
trauma-informed
care
,
working
with
both
individuals
and
couples
.
Mallory's
areas
of
focus
include
intimacy
issues
,
women's
health
issues
,
sexual
and
chronic
pain
and
dysfunctions
,
infertility
and
the
prenatal
years
.
She
works
diligently
in
educating
,
empowering
and
journeying
with
those
suffering
with
endometriosis
and
other
chronic
pain
issues
.
Please
help
me
in
welcoming
Mallory
Oxendine
to
Meet Mallory: Sex Therapist & Counselor
Speaker 1
1:25
the
table
.
Mallory
,
thank
you
so
much
for
taking
the
time
to
sit
down
with
me
at
the
table
today
.
It
is
an
honor
to
have
you
sit
down
with
me
,
yeah
thank
you
for
having
me
.
Speaker 1
1:36
So
excited
to
have
you
.
I
want
to
start
off
by
throwing
a
little
bit
of
a
caution
warning
out
there
for
all
the
listeners
.
If
you
typically
listen
in
the
car
or
are
sensitive
to
topics
like
sexual
intercourse
or
anything
like
that
,
I
want
to
tell
you
that
this
is
what
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
today
,
and
so
,
if
you
are
listening
with
other
people
around
,
I
would
suggest
either
earbuds
or
maybe
another
time
to
do
so
,
because
we
are
going
to
touch
on
some
pretty
sensitive
topics
,
but
,
although
sensitive
,
do
so
because
we
are
going
to
touch
on
some
pretty
sensitive
topics
but
,
although
sensitive
,
very
important
topics
to
talk
about
,
and
that's
going
to
be
sexual
intimacy
and
intimacy
surrounding
chronic
illness
and
endometriosis
.
So
,
mallory
,
thank
you
for
being
the
one
that
gets
to
do
this
with
me
,
and
I
know
that
you
are
passionate
about
this
as
well
,
so
I'm
excited
to
kind
of
dive
into
this
topic
.
Can
you
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
you
,
your
background
and
why
this
is
so
important
to
you
?
Speaker 2
2:29
Yeah
,
so
I
am
a
licensed
professional
counselor
and
a
certified
sex
therapist
,
and
then
I'm
also
certified
in
EMDR
,
which
is
a
therapy
style
to
work
with
trauma
or
pain
chronic
pain
and
so
I
do
a
lot
of
sex
therapy
and
pain
chronic
pain
work
together
,
and
then
a
lot
of
trauma
when
it
comes
to
sex
therapy
as
well
,
and
so
sometimes
it's
one
or
the
other
,
but
most
of
the
work
I
do
is
a
combination
of
both
.
So
I
get
to
sit
with
people
and
journey
with
them
as
they
work
through
their
healing
,
and
then
we
do
a
lot
of
education
and
just
normalization
of
some
sexual
topics
and
things
like
that
along
the
way
as
we're
dealing
with
their
trauma
and
their
pain
.
Speaker 1
3:17
Yeah
,
I
feel
like
this
is
something
that
so
many
of
us
have
kind
of
walked
through
in
one
way
or
another
.
I
think
,
when
you're
dealing
with
a
chronic
illness
and
one
that
significantly
affects
your
intimate
life
,
we
do
have
this
immense
amount
of
guilt
that
we
can't
,
you
know
,
be
as
present
in
the
bedroom
with
our
partner
,
and
it
hurts
.
But
how
do
we
explain
this
Sex Is Complex: Normalizing Struggles
Speaker 1
3:57
?
But
we
want
to
be
able
to
,
you
know
fit
,
a
need
that
they
have
,
but
we
just
physically
cannot
do
it
.
How
do
you
walk
your
patients
through
things
like
this
?
Speaker 2
4:08
Yeah
,
that's
a
great
question
.
I
want
to
start
off
by
the
disclaimer
that
sex
is
complex
.
It's
complex
when
you're
not
dealing
with
pain
,
just
two
people
showing
up
authentically
,
vulnerably
.
It
gets
complex
quickly
.
And
so
if
it
feels
complex
and
it's
like
this
is
supposed
to
be
easy
,
I'm
like
not
necessarily
Okay
.
I
don't
know
who
put
that
mantra
out
years
ago
,
but
it
is
not
easy
and
that's
okay
.
Speaker 2
4:37
So
,
it
is
complex
,
remembering
that
it's
complex
,
but
something
that
I
walk
a
lot
with
my
clients
through
is
their
beliefs
about
themselves
when
it
comes
to
the
bedroom
and
what
their
body
is
for
and
what
value
they
bring
as
a
person
.
Speaker 2
4:56
One
of
my
mentors
he
has
since
passed
,
but
years
ago
he
said
his
job
as
a
person
and
then
as
a
therapist
,
is
to
teach
people
and
to
see
people
3D
.
So
mind
,
body
,
spirit
,
and
so
it's
not
just
a
body
showing
up
to
have
sex
or
showing
up
to
engage
physically
,
it
is
,
there's
a
mind
,
there's
a
spirit
to
it
,
like
there
is
all
parts
of
you
that
are
present
.
So
,
looking
at
the
complexity
of
the
person
,
which
I
think
to
do
that
we
just
have
to
slow
things
down
a
lot
,
which
may
not
be
what
I
call
,
you
know
,
movie
sex
,
where
it's
like
passionate
,
hot
and
heavy
and
there's
,
you
know
,
there's
no
cleanup
,
and
everyone
,
you
know
,
finishes
at
the
same
time
and
all
those
things
that
like
just
it's
not
really
real
life
and
so
like
we
don't
have
to
shoot
for
movie
sex
,
we
can
just
shoot
for
intimacy
,
and
so
I
use
that
language
,
right
,
but
when
we
have
that
strong
,
desire
to
be
intimate
and
sexual
and
you
feel
like
you
have
that
barrier
.
Speaker 1
6:11
That's
what
gets
really
hard
for
those
of
us
who
are
chronically
ill
and
maybe
we
have
months
where
it's
just
not
comfortable
and
there's
that
immense
amount
of
guilt
that
we
want
to
be
that
intimate
with
someone
,
because
I
do
think
and
you
can
speak
to
this
,
but
I
do
think
there's
a
sense
of
intimacy
that
happens
sexually
when
you
come
together
is
hard
to
achieve
without
that
sometimes
,
because
you
want
that
closeness
.
How
would
you
approach
that
with
a
client
or
with
someone
battling
this
?
Speaker 2
6:47
Yeah
,
I
think
,
expanding
the
word
and
language
for
sex
and
intimacy
and
even
just
sexuality
,
and
so
I
think
a
lot
of
times
when
you
use
the
word
sex
,
where
a
lot
of
people's
mind
immediately
goes
to
like
penetrative
intercourse
,
and
as
,
yes
,
that
technically
also
is
sex
,
and
I
think
that
there
can
be
a
lot
of
other
fun
,
playful
,
engaging
,
sexual
Expanding Your Intimacy Playground
Speaker 2
7:16
arousing
.
You
know
,
dynamics
,
experiences
,
behaviors
within
that
context
too
.
So
something
I
once
we
sort
through
the
meaning
making
that's
happening
behind
it
,
something
that
we
really
work
on
with
when
I
work
with
couples
and
individuals
,
is
like
what
you
have
a
whole
playground
in
front
of
you
,
okay
,
and
maybe
the
swing
is
penetrative
intercourse
for
you
and
your
partner
.
And
what
would
it
look
like
to
try
the
monkey
bars
?
Like
you
,
you
know
,
we've
only
done
that
once
,
so
maybe
it's
a
little
awkward
or
a
little
different
than
what
we're
used
to
,
but
like
what
would
it
look
like
to
try
that
out
?
Or
like
,
have
we
tried
the
slide
?
Or
could
we
just
,
you
know
,
play
on
the
there
.
You
go
around
for
a
little
bit
and
there's
all
there's
.
Speaker 2
8:00
You
have
a
whole
playground
of
options
here
,
right
,
and
based
off
of
our
sexual
histories
,
our
sexual
education
,
we
kind
of
come
into
relationships
,
thinking
well
,
sex
is
this
and
this
is
what
I
need
to
do
for
it
,
and
this
is
what
is
most
important
and
with
with
endo
,
you
know
,
affecting
women
and
the
chronic
pain
there
,
there's
this
narrative
that
the
male
has
this
need
that
has
to
be
taken
care
of
.
Speaker 2
8:29
There's
all
that
kind
of
language
around
it
and
I
would
just
gently
and
softly
push
back
on
that
and
offer
it
being
a
deep
desire
,
but
not
necessarily
a
need
.
I
think
there
is
a
need
for
intimacy
,
which
is
connection
.
I
think
we
have
that
as
humans
,
but
I
don't
think
males
have
this
greater
need
for
intimacy
,
which
is
connection
.
I
think
we
have
that
as
humans
,
but
I
don't
think
males
have
this
greater
need
for
sex
than
women
.
And
so
I
just
gently
and
I
introduced
that
before
because
that's
what
they've
always
believed
or
how
they've
operated
for
their
entire
lives
and
so
it's
a
lot
to
sort
through
,
but
just
once
again
,
making
it
complex
too
,
it's
not
quite
that
simple
.
But
to
go
back
to
your
question
,
I
think
the
playground
metaphor
is
helpful
,
like
there's
a
whole
plethora
of
options
to
have
fun
and
engage
in
that
can
be
less
painful
or
not
painful
at
all
.
Speaker 1
9:19
How
does
the
mind-body
connection
play
a
role
in
managing
these
intimacy
challenges
for
those
living
with
chronic
pain
?
Speaker 2
9:27
Yeah
,
good
question
.
The
meaning
making
that
we
do
in
and
out
of
the
bedroom
about
the
bedroom
plays
a
huge
role
.
So
connecting
the
meaning
of
my
pain's
really
high
for
the
past
three
months
we
haven't
had
intimacy
.
What
does
that
mean
about
me
?
Of
my
pain's
really
high
,
for
the
past
three
months
we
haven't
had
intimacy
.
What
does
that
mean
about
me
?
Speaker 2
9:46
And
oftentimes
we
go
very
dark
for
lack
of
better
words
about
how
it
usually
goes
into
the
value
category
right
,
like
I'm
not
enough
,
my
body
is
failing
me
,
I'm
not
doing
what
I'm
supposed
to
,
right
,
we
start
getting
these
negative
beliefs
about
ourselves
that
cognitively
we
know
are
not
true
,
because
we
would
.
Speaker 2
10:05
If
our
friend
told
us
that
would
immediately
go
.
That's
not
true
,
right
,
but
when
we
say
to
ourselves
,
it
feels
very
true
and
I
think
that
guilt
,
like
you
mentioned
earlier
,
plays
a
big
part
,
kind
of
feeding
that
um
and
so
working
through
changing
those
negative
beliefs
into
positive
truths
about
ourselves
,
which
sometimes
we
need
the
help
of
EMDR
therapy
and
you
know
they
need
the
help
of
a
therapist
for
that
and
that's
okay
,
or
a
support
group
,
or
we
just
need
other
people
to
help
us
with
that
.
Sometimes
.
But
in
language
,
instead
of
like
my
body
is
failing
me
,
my
body
did
the
best
it
could
today
and
just
that
small
switch
can
really
just
alleviate
some
of
the
pressure
to
perform
,
which
is
a
big
damper
on
arousal
and
desire
and
pressure
.
So
you're
actually
helping
yourself
through
by
alleviating
some
of
that
pressure
.
Speaker 1
11:01
Yeah
,
and
I
think
I
know
.
For
me
,
you
know
,
there's
been
times
where
I
have
been
in
the
space
of
just
trying
to
figure
out
what
my
body's
even
capable
of
,
and
then
we
tend
to
clamp
down
when
we're
worried
about
that
.
Right
,
yeah
,
it's
hard
to
sometimes
pull
ourselves
out
of
that
space
of
fear
and
disappointment
you
know
,
that
we're
going
to
disappoint
our
partners
again
.
Speaker 1
11:29
You
know
,
and
we're
going
to
.
What
I
was
able
to
do
today
,
Carrying
that
into
the
bedroom
and
into
these
settings
is
,
I
think
,
could
probably
help
a
lot
of
people
reframe
the
way
that
they
see
intimacy
and
the
way
they
see
connection
with
their
partner
.
Speaker 2
12:02
Yeah
,
something
to
add
to
that
,
as
you
were
talking
,
that
was
The Mind-Body Connection in Intimacy
Speaker 2
12:05
another
component
that
I
think
plays
a
big
part
is
the
um
,
the
purpose
of
the
time
together
.
Speaker 2
12:14
And
so
if
we
walk
into
this
going
well
,
well
,
tonight's
the
night
we
like
we
have
to
have
penetrative
intercourse
and
like
,
this
is
what
this
means
that
,
like
you
said
,
the
anxiety
is
going
to
start
going
the
you
know
,
and
then
when
we
can't
or
we
choose
not
to
,
there
there's
then
all
the
guilt
shows
up
or
shame
,
and
then
so
just
all
this
happening
and
so
going
in
very
loosely
of
like
hey
,
we're
just
going
to
spend
time
together
tonight
,
phones
down
,
tv
off
,
let's
get
comfy
,
let's
light
a
candle
,
let's
set
the
mood
,
let's
enjoy
it
.
We
can
be
sensual
and
not
have
any
expectations
over
this
meaning
something
or
this
having
to
be
something
,
but
just
connection
,
and
maybe
that's
just
cuddling
,
maybe
that's
a
back
rub
or
caress
,
maybe
that's
just
making
out
,
maybe
it
is
penetrative
intercourse
,
but
it
takes
off
the
pressure
of
this
.
Well
,
this
is
what
this
has
to
be
,
it's
like
it
can
be
what
we
want
it
to
.
Speaker 1
13:09
Yeah
,
and
that's
something
,
too
,
that
I
think
that
we
put
on
ourselves
is
that
pressure
to
perform
.
And
I
think
that
I
don't
know
about
other
people
,
but
for
myself
I
have
this
perfectionism
mentality
,
sometimes
just
in
everyday
life
,
and
when
you
can't
do
that
in
your
everyday
life
,
things
that
you're
good
at
,
whether
it's
your
career
,
whether
it's
the
things
like
helping
your
family
or
taking
care
of
your
family
,
and
how
that
can
translate
into
the
bedroom
and
the
trauma
of
all
of
that
.
Speaker 1
13:41
I
think
a
lot
of
people
,
including
myself
,
have
walked
through
that
before
of
like
I
feel
like
I
need
to
perform
.
Now
I
need
to
be
.
Oh
my
God
,
I'm
going
to
show
up
my
best
for
this
.
There
are
days
that
you're
just
not
,
but
sometimes
just
being
okay
with
that
.
But
how
do
you
tell
your
partner
this
?
How
do
you
tell
your
partner
I
am
not
in
a
space
where
I
can
do
this
.
I'm
having
a
hard
time
and
for
some
people
this
might
be
a
new
concept
because
maybe
they
haven't
talked
to
their
partners
about
this
before
.
Speaker 1
14:10
But
it's
getting
worse
and
they've
got
to
talk
to
their
partners
or
maybe
they
just
can't
do
it
anymore
,
and
it's
becoming
more
traumatizing
each
time
that
they
do
have
penetrative
sex
.
How
do
they
talk
about
this
with
their
partners
?
Speaker 2
14:26
I
think
one
of
the
factors
that
comes
up
for
me
and
I
see
most
often
in
my
office
is
the
avoidance
of
talking
about
it
because
of
fear
of
response
.
Speaker 2
14:38
Right
,
and
really
,
when
we
kind
of
dig
down
,
it's
often
a
fear
of
rejection
what
if
I
say
I
can't
and
they
don't
accept
me
or
they
don't
want
me
anymore
,
they
don't
pursue
me
anymore
?
Those
are
just
some
of
the
narratives
I
hear
come
out
of
the
fear
that
kind
of
stops
us
and
holds
us
from
being
emotionally
and
verbally
vulnerable
with
our
partner
,
herbal
,
with
our
partner
.
So
one
of
the
things
that
I
work
through
is
there's
a
really
good
book
called
People
Fuel
by
John
Townsend
and
he
talks
about
relational
nutrients
and
giving
people
the
nutrients
they
need
to
thrive
as
a
human
,
and
I
just
love
the
language
he
uses
in
that
book
.
But
I
introduced
that
he
has
a
little
handout
.
It's
easy
to
find
.
It's
free
downloads
,
like
easy
to
find
,
but
it
talks
about
like
giving
acceptance
,
giving
comfort
,
giving
containment
,
giving
encouragement
,
giving
hope
.
So
sometimes
when
we
go
to
have
hard
conversations
,
a
lot
of
times
the
person
listening
doesn't
really
know
how
to
respond
because
they
don't
know
what
they're
looking
for
right
right
they
are
like
to
you
.
Speaker 2
15:44
Do
you
want
me
to
say
it's
okay
?
You
want
me
to
say
I
don't
know
what
we're
looking
for
,
right
,
right
,
they
are
like
to
you
.
Do
you
want
me
to
say
it's
okay
?
You
want
me
to
say
I
don't
care
?
Do
you
want
me
to
say
,
because
the
fact
is
,
they
probably
do
care
,
right
,
and
it
does
impact
.
Speaker 2
15:54
That
doesn't
mean
that
love's
not
there
,
that
doesn't
mean
they're
not
going
to
journey
with
you
,
but
,
like
,
they
do
have
an
experience
this
with
you
,
um
,
and
so
I
really
encourage
clients
to
read
that
,
read
the
book
,
or
at
least
review
the
of
the
different
relational
nutrients
and
like
what
do
you
need
?
Oh
,
I
really
just
need
acceptance
,
what
she
defines
as
connection
without
judgment
.
I
just
need
to
know
that
you
accept
me
when
I
say
that
I
don't
have
energy
to
have
sex
.
Yeah
,
right
.
And
most
,
most
partners
are
going
to
go
okay
,
how
can
I
do
that
?
Yeah
,
or
like
this
is
hard
for
me
,
but
I
want
to
try
to
do
that
for
you
.
Right
,
they're
going
to
have
their
experience
of
it
.
But
they
want
to
engage
because
of
the
love
and
care
in
the
relationship
.
Yeah
,
because
of
the
love
and
care
in
the
relationship
.
Speaker 1
16:44
Yeah
,
speaking
about
partners
,
what
are
some
ways
that
partners
can
help
those
of
us
who
have
a
chronic
illness
or
have
endometriosis
or
have
trauma
from
their
past
,
whether
it
be
medical
or
body
trauma
of
any
sort
?
Speaker 2
17:00
Yeah
,
what
I
would
encourage
partners
to
do
is
to
slow
down
.
I
think
oftentimes
we
me
included
,
I
get
in
this
mode
.
Sometimes
we
get
into
fixer
mode
,
where
we're
just
like
you
know
what
?
I
have
a
game
plan
and
why
don't
we
try
this
and
we
can
do
this
,
and
have
we
thought
about
this
?
And
not
that
there's
a
time
and
place
for
that
,
but
most
of
the
time
,
the
person
sitting
in
front
of
us
just
needs
to
be
seen
and
connected
with
,
and
so
my
biggest
How Partners Can Support & Communicate
Speaker 2
17:32
encouragement
to
partners
is
to
slow
down
and
to
just
be
present
.
Speaker 2
17:36
Yeah
,
be
present
with
their
partner
,
which
also
means
they
have
to
be
present
with
themselves
,
which
may
be
a
new
experience
for
them
.
But
be
present
with
your
partner
and
just
notice
.
Hey
,
I
see
that
you've
had
the
heat
and
pat
out
four
times
today
and
I
know
we're
supposed
to
go
on
a
date
.
Are
you
still
okay
to
go
on
the
date
tonight
?
Just
check
in
.
Then
,
right
,
and
you're
like
yeah
,
no
,
I
am
,
I
just
was
prepping
Right
.
No
,
I
am
,
I
just
was
prepping
right
.
Like
whatever
it
may
be
,
but
just
noticing
being
present
to
check
in
.
Is
that
desire
to
be
seen
and
cared
for
and
loved
at
that
level
?
I
think
,
is
.
I
think
that
can
do
a
lot
,
do
a
lot
for
the
soul
,
do
a
lot
for
a
relationship
,
and
so
I
.
My
biggest
thing
for
partners
is
to
slow
down
,
be
present
,
check
in
more
,
ask
.
It's
okay
to
ask
and
to
go
.
I
don't
know
.
I'm
not
going
to
assume
I'm
not
in
your
head
,
I
don't
know
.
Can
you
tell
me
what's
going
on
for
you
today
?
Speaker 1
18:32
Yeah
,
what
are
some
tangible
tools
for
partners
to
deal
with
?
Maybe
the
frustration
of
the
disease
and
ways
,
because
I
mean
they
do
want
that
time
with
their
partner
.
They
do
want
to
spend
that
intimacy
and
that
time
with
someone
,
and
sometimes
that
does
involve
sex
.
Speaker 1
18:54
And
they
want
it
,
but
it
just
keeps
getting
pushed
off
.
It
could
be
because
of
fear
,
it
could
be
because
of
pain
,
it
could
be
a
multitude
of
things
,
multitude
of
things
.
But
how
are
some
ways
that
partners
can
communicate
to
us
chronically
ill
people
some
of
those
desires
?
But
also
,
how
can
they
manage
maybe
?
I
don't
want
to
say
expectations
,
but
ways
that
they
can
help
talk
to
themselves
about
?
And
to
their
partners
about
the
struggles
that
they're
facing
with
this
disease
.
Speaker 2
19:23
Yeah
,
I'm
a
big
fan
,
I
say
this
all
the
time
.
I'm
like
let's
talk
about
talking
about
it
.
Yeah
,
you
know
,
like
let's
take
it
one
step
back
.
And
so
being
able
to
go
in
and
go
,
hey
,
how
can
I
approach
you
when
I
have
a
desire
for
intimacy
,
like
what's
the
best
way
to
do
that
,
so
that
you
know
that
I
just
desire
you
and
I
love
you
,
and
not
an
expectation
of
for
you
to
perform
or
show
out
or
show
up
in
a
certain
way
.
So
I
think
talking
about
it
when
it's
not
in
the
moment
is
helpful
.
So
we're
a
little
bit
more
regulated
,
we're
a
little
bit
more
calm
,
have
our
more
of
our
thinking
brain
operating
,
you
know
,
so
we
can
just
maybe
make
better
word
choices
or
be
able
to
control
if
our
emotions
come
up
,
we
can
control
how
they're
exhibited
a
little
bit
better
.
So
I
love
encouraging
,
like
let's
talk
about
it
in
advance
so
we're
not
in
the
moment
flailing
around
trying
to
figure
this
thing
out
together
.
Speaker 2
20:24
The
other
thing
I
want
to
encourage
,
encourage
partners
with
,
is
like
this
is
an
experience
that
you
are
living
in
the
junction
to
and
living
in
part
of
your
story
as
well
.
Speaker 2
20:37
So
your
experience
and
feelings
matter
and
they
do
not
matter
more
,
right
,
and
so
they
matter
.
It's
good
to
like
well
,
how
do
you
feel
when
y'all
had
planned
to
have
intimacy
and
now
you're
not
sad
,
frustrated
,
okay
,
that's
valid
.
And
the
why
is
also
important
,
like
why
you're
not
having
it
,
your
partner's
pain
,
your
partner's
,
you
know
,
maybe
they
had
a
doctor's
appointment
and
they
felt
triggered
and
like
that's
important
too
,
and
so
it's
not
no
one's
more
important
.
No
one's
feelings
are
more
important
than
the
others
,
and
so
I
always
and
cognitively
I
think
everyone
agrees
with
that
we're
like
well
,
of
course
,
but
I
think
when
we
get
in
the
moment
and
we
have
our
eyes
set
on
something
and
we
have
high
desire
,
like
we
forget
.
So
it's
something
I
verbally
speak
a
lot
of
,
like
you
are
valid
,
you
are
important
,
what
you
feel
matters
,
and
it
does
not
matter
more
than
the
person
sitting
beside
you
matters
and
it
does
not
matter
more
than
the
person
sitting
beside
you
,
right
?
Speaker 1
21:36
Yeah
,
I
mean
,
it's
hard
for
us
as
the
patients
to
not
feel
guilty
about
that
,
that
they
have
to
do
that
.
Some
people
didn't
know
they
were
walking
into
this
.
Some
people
,
some
partners
,
didn't
know
that
this
was
going
to
be
the
life
that
they
were
going
to
live
,
and
they
have
to
grieve
that
too
,
I
think
.
Speaker 2
21:58
I
don't
think
that
we
alone
grieve
that
.
I
think
it's
a
mutual
thing
.
Speaker 1
22:01
There's
a
lot
of
grief
in
this
disease
,
when
trauma
happens
with
partners
,
whether
it's
you
are
having
sex
and
then
all
Grieving Together: Healing Through Vulnerability
Speaker 1
22:12
of
a
sudden
something
happens
,
pain
happens
,
something
flares
,
something
triggers
.
For
the
partner's
sake
,
is
that
something
that
the
EMDR
could
help
with
as
well
,
walking
through
that
,
and
how
?
Because
you
know
,
I've
talked
to
a
couple
of
people
who
post-surgery
had
a
cuff
tear
and
it
was
very
traumatizing
for
the
partner
,
very
traumatizing
for
the
partner
,
very
traumatizing
for
the
partner
,
and
it
was
a
good
long
time
of
.
Speaker 1
22:38
Am
I
hurting
you
?
I'm
just
scared
,
you
know
,
because
they
do
care
,
they
do
love
them
.
Speaker 2
22:51
How
do
?
Speaker 1
22:51
you
approach
your
clients
,
that
kind
of
walk
in
,
or
those
patients
?
Speaker 2
22:54
that
come
in
,
struggling
with
that
to
get
over
that
part
of
their
fear
the
partner
fear
.
With
that
,
to
get
over
that
part
of
their
fear
the
partner
fear
.
Yeah
,
I
think
I
think
mdr
is
a
great
choice
.
From
mdr
all
the
way
,
I
think
it's
a
great
choice
for
both
the
person
with
the
chronic
illness
and
the
partner
.
Especially
.
There's
been
,
like
you
know
,
incidences
or
moments
that
you
can
like
that
stick
in
your
brain
or
like
come
to
the
forefront
,
like
that's
great
,
even
if
there's
not
the
NDR
,
still
helpful
,
but
those
are
very
direct
,
like
NDR
can
directly
work
through
those
.
I
also
think
when
it's
the
couple
that's
been
through
it
I'm
getting
,
the
trauma-informed
sex
therapist
is
great
and
huge
,
because
what
sex
therapy
looks
like
in
the
couple's
context
is
slowing
it
down
,
teaching
some
communication
exercises
,
coaching
the
couple
on
how
and
when
to
engage
,
let's
debriefing
the
beliefs
about
sex
and
sexuality
.
Speaker 2
23:48
And
it
really
helps
to
work
through
one
of
the
questions
asked
every
couple
at
on
session
three
.
It
comes
up
every
time
almost
uh
,
like
have
y'all
ever
grieved
that
together
?
And
then
there's
always
this
like
look
of
the
little
men
,
of
like
why
,
what
?
No
,
why
would
we
?
You
know
right
,
and
I'm
like
that's
so
intimate
to
grieve
that
pain
and
that
loss
that
y'all
both
experiencing
,
but
to
grieve
it
together
.
It
was
like
wow
,
like
how
intimate
,
vulnerable
is
that
to
sit
with
someone
,
weep
over
something
y'all
both
have
lost
and
are
losing
sometimes
.
Yeah
,
you
know
,
and
the
caveat
with
chronic
illness
which
is
why
I
love
working
with
this
population
,
because
they're
so
resilient
is
that
it
is
a
continual
loss
right
because
it
doesn't
go
away
,
and
so
there
may
.
Speaker 2
24:42
There
may
be
high
seasons
or
good
seasons
,
but
they're
like
it
.
They're
the
loss
will
come
again
,
and
so
the
energy
to
grieve
that
,
knowing
that
it
could
come
again
.
People
,
we
,
we
avoid
,
avoid
pain
.
We
do
,
we
avoid
pain
in
our
human
nature
.
We're
like
that's
uncomfortable
.
No
,
thank
you
.
But
how
vulnerable
,
intimate
could
that
be
?
To
sit
with
your
partner
and
go
.
We've
lost
this
and
I'm
sad
with
you
and
I'm
grieving
with
you
and
I
love
you
and
I
desire
,
desire
you
,
and
we
can't
fix
it
right
now
,
and
that's
okay
.
We're
just
going
to
sit
together
in
the
fact
that
we're
together
in
this
,
and
I
that's
.
I
always
ask
couples
that
question
because
I'm
like
that
could
change
things
for
you
.
Learning
to
do
that
can
change
a
lot
.
Speaker 1
25:31
That's
so
good
.
These
are
the
things
that
I
think
sometimes
we
need
permission
to
hear
,
though
I
think
a
lot
of
us
are
in
a
.
You
know
,
I've
certainly
been
in
a
space
before
where
I've
been
afraid
to
address
some
of
these
things
.
I've
been
afraid
to
talk
about
some
of
these
things
.
I
don't
want
to
ask
my
partner
to
do
certain
things
or
to
not
do
certain
things
.
I
don't
want
to
talk
to
my
partner
about
it
because
I
don't
want
to
make
it
a
bigger
deal
than
it
really
is
.
But
it
is
a
big
deal
because
we're
all
going
through
this
and
it
is
because
of
the
nature
of
this
disease
and
the
things
that
we
kind
of
encounter
all
the
time
our
whole
life
,
not
to
be
a
Debbie
.
Speaker 1
26:14
Downer
but
the
reality
of
the
disease
is
that
we're
going
to
have
to
continue
talking
about
this
and
dealing
with
certain
things
that
are
going
to
be
uncomfortable
,
and
I
,
you
know
I've
certainly
had
a
grieving
.
I've
definitely
grieved
over
it
.
But
I
love
that
you
say
to
do
that
together
.
And
I
will
tell
you
just
from
personal
experience
.
Speaker 1
26:37
When
my
husband
and
I
have
sat
down
and
talked
about
some
of
the
things
that
we've
gone
through
because
of
this
disease
,
it's
been
so
healing
for
me
to
understand
his
perspective
,
because
I
thought
I
was
alone
in
feeling
certain
things
and
when
you
can
talk
through
it
was
alone
in
feeling
certain
things
Grounding Techniques for Intimacy
Speaker 1
26:58
and
when
you
can
talk
through
it
,
you
know
,
even
if
it's
uncomfortable
to
talk
through
it
,
and
it
probably
will
be
,
and
it
probably
will
be
,
probably
will
be
.
Why
is
that
?
Why
are
we
so
ashamed
to
talk
about
these
things
when
it's
so
healthy
to
do
it
?
You
know
,
because
it
can
bring
pain
up
.
I
think
that
,
for
me
,
is
why
I
didn't
want
to
.
Can
bring
pain
up
.
Speaker 2
27:18
I
think
that
,
for
me
,
is
why
I
didn't
want
to
talk
about
it
.
Speaker 1
27:21
It's
painful
,
it's
triggering
,
you
know
,
but
it's
so
,
so
good
,
so
good
.
Are
there
specific
mindful
or
grounding
techniques
that
you
would
recommend
to
help
individuals
feel
safe
and
present
during
MIS-E
,
because
that
might
also
be
helpful
?
In
having
these
discussions
.
Speaker 2
27:40
Yes
,
I'm
all
for
,
like
,
practically
,
let's
shoot
it
straight
,
right
,
right
,
I'm
all
for
let's
set
the
mood
,
okay
.
So
if
you
like
no
lights
,
lights
,
dim
candle
,
you
like
certain
smells
,
you
want
certain
sheets
like
,
you
want
your
little
nightie
that's
all
satin-y
and
all
like
,
get
comfortable
.
You
want
to
wear
your
big
,
you
know
Mickey
Mouse
,
lulu
,
wear
it
Like
,
do
what
feels
comfortable
for
you
.
I
think
that's
an
important
part
.
When
we
were
able
to
feel
comfortable
in
our
environment
,
it's
a
little
bit
easier
to
feel
comfortable
in
our
skin
.
Yes
,
and
so
I'm
a
big
proponent
of
that
.
Speaker 2
28:15
Some
of
the
grounding
exercises
,
because
it's
really
easy
for
dissociation
to
occur
in
intimacy
For
men
and
women
.
I
hear
a
lot
of
women
,
more
women
,
report
dissociating
during
intimacy
because
it's
either
painful
or
they're
just
ready
,
they're
tired
and
they're
ready
for
it
to
be
over
,
or
they
weren't
really
feeling
it
,
but
they
just
feel
like
,
sure
,
you
know
all
those
different
factors
and
while
that
is
effective
in
quote
,
unquote
,
getting
the
job
done
,
I
would
argue
that
that's
not
healthy
for
you
,
because
you
deserve
,
deserve
to
feel
,
be
present
and
enjoy
things
as
well
.
Pleasure
is
pleasures
for
all
,
like
it's
not
just
for
the
partner
right
,
and
so
being
able
to
ground
can
really
help
stay
focused
and
not
dissociate
.
Some
of
those
things
are
using
our
senses
.
A
very
common
thing
that
people
talk
about
is
like
the
take
five
grounding
,
so
it's
five
things
.
You
see
four
things
.
You
feel
physically
feel
three
things
,
you
hear
two
things
,
you
smell
one
thing
,
you
taste
,
and
so
,
like
you
can
go
through
all
that
,
or
you
can
just
pick
one
,
like
what's
four
things
I
feel
right
now
through
all
that
,
or
you
can
just
pick
one
like
what's
four
things
I
feel
right
now
.
Um
,
okay
,
I
feel
the
sheet
.
Okay
,
I
feel
my
hair
on
my
neck
.
I
feel
right
like
the
fans
going
,
like
whatever
it
may
be
.
Right
,
noticing
what
you
feel
.
That
can
really
bring
you
into
your
body
.
Speaker 2
29:46
Some
other
great
grounding
exercises
are
to
be
able
to
slow
down
with
your
partner
and
,
and
so
when
I
work
with
couples
and
I've
done
this
a
lot
with
couples
who
post-surgery
or
post-hysterectomy
or
post
I've
also
done
it
with
post-birth
,
really
just
kind
of
any
major
event
too
Right
the
genitals
or
the
,
the
female
organs
we
do
the
sexual
retraining
process
,
which
is
like
a
series
of
exercises
which
sex
therapists
use
to
work
couples
through
regaining
comfortability
and
safety
and
trust
with
their
partner
,
which
is
,
is
I
mean
I
,
I
joke
all
the
time
.
I'm
like
clients
aren't
like
oh
,
I
love
this
.
Like's
not
.
No
one's
ever
excited
to
see
a
therapist
.
Really
,
right
,
like
it's
okay
,
we've
accepted
that
.
We
know
that
as
therapists
.
Speaker 1
30:41
But
we
love
you
after
,
so
that's
really
all
that
matters
most
of
the
time
.
Speaker 2
30:46
Yeah
,
but
there's
,
we'll
go
do
this
exercise
and
come
back
and
process
it
and
they're
like
this
was
so
good
because
I
realized
that
you
know
it
matters
to
me
a
lot
how
you
know
what
words
are
spoken
or
not
spoken
,
like
that
impacts
me
a
lot
,
and
so
some
of
the
retraining
exercises
work
through
and
create
scenarios
to
do
that
.
But
in
that
we
work
through
.
Do
you
like
the
room
cooler
or
warmer
?
Can
you
ask
for
that
?
In
the
middle
of
intimacy
,
can
you
say
,
hey
,
I'm
too
cold
right
now
.
I'm
like
I'm
thrown
off
,
I
need
a
blanket
or
I
need
can
we
bring
the
heater
in
here
?
Whatever
it
may
be
,
that
matters
a
lot
to
you
being
able
to
be
present
to
enjoy
.
And
so
,
once
again
,
going
back
to
communication
,
how
can
we
talk
to
our
partner
about
?
Hey
,
this
is
what
I
need
,
either
before
,
after
or
during
?
Speaker 1
31:44
intimacy
.
I
think
people
need
permission
to
even
hear
that
.
Speaker 2
31:49
Like
,
ask
for
what
you
need
,
ask
for
what
you
yeah
,
it's
okay
,
and
most
of
the
time
99%
of
the
time
in
intimacy
there's
.
I'm
not
going
to
get
into
all
the
background
of
this
research
that
was
conducted
.
It
was
very
interesting
,
but
there
was
this
research
that
showed
that
most
male
partners
they
enjoy
sex
and
intimacy
the
most
when
they
know
that
their
partner
is
enjoying
it
and
their
female
partner
is
enjoying
it
.
So
it's
very
interesting
because
I'm
like
I
don't
,
they
don't
care
,
right
,
they
would
rather
you
stop
and
pause
and
turn
,
you
know
,
the
fan
off
and
get
a
blanket
right
so
that
you
can
enjoy
and
be
present
than
for
you
just
to
like
make
it
through
.
And
so
I'm
like
,
and
usually
I'll
like
turn
and
like
,
you
know
the
male
partner's
like
shaking
their
head
out
of
it
.
Speaker 1
32:41
This
is
not
the
scenario
where
you
fake
it
till
you
make
it
.
This
is
the
scenario
you
talk
about
it
and
you
work
through
it
,
and
if
you
can't
fake
it
,
you
shouldn't
not
make
it
.
You
shouldn't
fake
it
.
Speaker 2
33:01
That's
what
I'm
trying
to
say
Right
,
yes
,
right
,
yes
,
right
,
and
I
think
that's
something
else
to
talk
through
in
advance
is
like
what
does
it
look
like
?
Or
how
will
you
feel
if
I
need
to
pause
or
stop
halfway
through
?
Right
,
like
,
because
I
think
a
lot
of
times
,
both
parties
and
which
is
interesting
because
they
there's
a
usually
,
like
you
know
can't
try
this
,
but
both
feel
,
but
they
both
feel
guilty
,
they
both
feel
sad
,
they
both
feel
rejected
to
some
degree
,
like
there's
this
component
of
like
oh
,
we're
disconnected
,
and
like
I
don't
,
you
know
,
and
it's
like
okay
,
your
feelings
are
valid
and
I
can
all
agree
that
together
.
Again
,
yeah
,
because
me
asking
to
pause
is
not
me
saying
I
don't
want
intimacy
with
you
.
Speaker 1
33:37
Yeah
,
you
know
,
what
I
think
is
interesting
too
is
I
can
only
imagine
for
those
people
who
force
their
way
through
this
,
or
force
themselves
to
do
it
because
they
think
they
should
,
how
much
more
trauma
that
is
adding
to
their
bodies
not
only
their
bodies
but
their
minds
and
their
spirit
,
like
everything
that
we
try
to
protect
,
it
in
essence
kind
of
hurts
,
and
I
think
that's
what
you're
kind
of
saying
is
it's
you
need
to
talk
about
this
,
you
need
to
grieve
this
together
so
that
you
don't
hold
this
in
and
you
can
be
more
present
and
you
can
desire
it
more
,
as
opposed
to
I've
got
a
headache
,
you
know
,
like
that
old
saying
of
like
well
,
you've
got
a
headache
,
you
know
,
and
there's
truth
to
that
,
but
I
do
think
talking
about
that
makes
a
huge
difference
in
how
our
body
responds
to
the
stress
of
sometimes
intimacy
our
body
responds
to
the
stress
of
,
sometimes
intimacy
yeah
,
Something
,
I
.
Speaker 2
34:39
I
love
this
little
catchphrase
.
I
forget
who
coined
it
,
but
it's
.
I
can't
truly
say
yes
if
I
can't
say
no
,
and
I
think
there's
so
much
pressure
that
that
is
put
on
ourselves
where
we're
like
like
you're
allowed
to
say
no
,
which
means
that
when
you
say
yes
,
you
are
100%
meanest
.
It's
not
a
yes
out
of
duty
or
obligation
or
shoulds
,
but
it's
a
yes
out
of
like
desire
.
But
I
only
get
that
when
I
have
the
freedom
and
ability
to
say
no
.
Speaker 1
35:11
If
this
part
one
has
resonated
with
you
,
then
tune
in
next
time
for
part
two
of
this
series
with
Mallory
Oxendine
.
It
will
leave
you
informed
and
empowered
to
continue
exploring
different
tools
and
aspects
of
intimacy
and
,
until
then
,
continue
advocating
for
you
and
for
others
.
Thank
you
.