Intercourse, Pain & Guilt: Navigating Intimacy When Your Body Betrays You With Mallory Oxendine

Speaker 1:
0:02

Welcome to EndoBattery, where I share my journey with endometriosis and chronic illness, while learning and growing along the way. This podcast is not a substitute for medical advice, but a supportive space to provide community and valuable information so you never have to face this journey alone. We embrace a range of perspectives that may not always align with our own. Believing that open dialogue helps us grow and gain new tools always align with our own. Believing that open dialogue helps us grow and gain new tools. Join me as I share stories of strength, resilience and hope, from personal experiences to expert insights. I'm your host, alana, and this is EndoBattery charging our lives when endometriosis drains us. Welcome back to EndoBattery. Grab your cup of coffee or your cup of tea and join me at the table.

Speaker 1:
0:47

Today, I'm joined at the table by my guest, mallory Oxendine, who is a licensed professional counselor, a certified sex therapist and is certified in EMDR therapy. She focuses her work on sexuality-informed and trauma-informed care, working with both individuals and couples. Mallory's areas of focus include intimacy issues, women's health issues, sexual and chronic pain and dysfunctions, infertility and the prenatal years. She works diligently in educating, empowering and journeying with those suffering with endometriosis and other chronic pain issues. Please help me in welcoming Mallory Oxendine to the table. Mallory, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me at the table today. It is an honor to have you sit down with me, yeah thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:
1:36

So excited to have you. I want to start off by throwing a little bit of a caution warning out there for all the listeners. If you typically listen in the car or are sensitive to topics like sexual intercourse or anything like that, I want to tell you that this is what we're going to be talking about today, and so, if you are listening with other people around, I would suggest either earbuds or maybe another time to do so, because we are going to touch on some pretty sensitive topics, but, although sensitive, do so because we are going to touch on some pretty sensitive topics but, although sensitive, very important topics to talk about, and that's going to be sexual intimacy and intimacy surrounding chronic illness and endometriosis. So, mallory, thank you for being the one that gets to do this with me, and I know that you are passionate about this as well, so I'm excited to kind of dive into this topic. Can you tell us a little bit about you, your background and why this is so important to you?

Speaker 2:
2:29

Yeah, so I am a licensed professional counselor and a certified sex therapist, and then I'm also certified in EMDR, which is a therapy style to work with trauma or pain chronic pain and so I do a lot of sex therapy and pain chronic pain work together, and then a lot of trauma when it comes to sex therapy as well, and so sometimes it's one or the other, but most of the work I do is a combination of both. So I get to sit with people and journey with them as they work through their healing, and then we do a lot of education and just normalization of some sexual topics and things like that along the way as we're dealing with their trauma and their pain.

Speaker 1:
3:17

Yeah, I feel like this is something that so many of us have kind of walked through in one way or another. I think, when you're dealing with a chronic illness and one that significantly affects your intimate life, we do have this immense amount of guilt that we can't, you know, be as present in the bedroom with our partner, and it hurts. But how do we explain this? But we want to be able to, you know fit, a need that they have, but we just physically cannot do it. How do you walk your patients through things like this?

Speaker 2:
4:08

Yeah, that's a great question. I want to start off by the disclaimer that sex is complex. It's complex when you're not dealing with pain, just two people showing up authentically, vulnerably. It gets complex quickly. And so if it feels complex and it's like this is supposed to be easy, I'm like not necessarily Okay. I don't know who put that mantra out years ago, but it is not easy and that's okay.

Speaker 2:
4:37

So, it is complex, remembering that it's complex, but something that I walk a lot with my clients through is their beliefs about themselves when it comes to the bedroom and what their body is for and what value they bring as a person.

Speaker 2:
4:56

One of my mentors he has since passed, but years ago he said his job as a person and then as a therapist, is to teach people and to see people 3D. So mind, body, spirit, and so it's not just a body showing up to have sex or showing up to engage physically, it is, there's a mind, there's a spirit to it, like there is all parts of you that are present. So, looking at the complexity of the person, which I think to do that we just have to slow things down a lot, which may not be what I call, you know, movie sex, where it's like passionate, hot and heavy and there's, you know, there's no cleanup, and everyone, you know, finishes at the same time and all those things that like just it's not really real life and so like we don't have to shoot for movie sex, we can just shoot for intimacy, and so I use that language, right, but when we have that strong, desire to be intimate and sexual and you feel like you have that barrier.

Speaker 1:
6:11

That's what gets really hard for those of us who are chronically ill and maybe we have months where it's just not comfortable and there's that immense amount of guilt that we want to be that intimate with someone, because I do think and you can speak to this, but I do think there's a sense of intimacy that happens sexually when you come together is hard to achieve without that sometimes, because you want that closeness. How would you approach that with a client or with someone battling this?

Speaker 2:
6:47

Yeah, I think, expanding the word and language for sex and intimacy and even just sexuality, and so I think a lot of times when you use the word sex, where a lot of people's mind immediately goes to like penetrative intercourse, and as, yes, that technically also is sex, and I think that there can be a lot of other fun, playful, engaging, sexual arousing. You know, dynamics, experiences, behaviors within that context too. So something I once we sort through the meaning making that's happening behind it, something that we really work on with when I work with couples and individuals, is like what you have a whole playground in front of you, okay, and maybe the swing is penetrative intercourse for you and your partner. And what would it look like to try the monkey bars? Like you, you know, we've only done that once, so maybe it's a little awkward or a little different than what we're used to, but like what would it look like to try that out? Or like, have we tried the slide? Or could we just, you know, play on the there. You go around for a little bit and there's all there's.

Speaker 2:
8:00

You have a whole playground of options here, right, and based off of our sexual histories, our sexual education, we kind of come into relationships, thinking well, sex is this and this is what I need to do for it, and this is what is most important and with with endo, you know, affecting women and the chronic pain there, there's this narrative that the male has this need that has to be taken care of.

Speaker 2:
8:29

There's all that kind of language around it and I would just gently and softly push back on that and offer it being a deep desire, but not necessarily a need. I think there is a need for intimacy, which is connection. I think we have that as humans, but I don't think males have this greater need for intimacy, which is connection. I think we have that as humans, but I don't think males have this greater need for sex than women. And so I just gently and I introduced that before because that's what they've always believed or how they've operated for their entire lives and so it's a lot to sort through, but just once again, making it complex too, it's not quite that simple. But to go back to your question, I think the playground metaphor is helpful, like there's a whole plethora of options to have fun and engage in that can be less painful or not painful at all.

Speaker 1:
9:19

How does the mind-body connection play a role in managing these intimacy challenges for those living with chronic pain?

Speaker 2:
9:27

Yeah, good question. The meaning making that we do in and out of the bedroom about the bedroom plays a huge role. So connecting the meaning of my pain's really high for the past three months we haven't had intimacy. What does that mean about me? Of my pain's really high, for the past three months we haven't had intimacy. What does that mean about me?

Speaker 2:
9:46

And oftentimes we go very dark for lack of better words about how it usually goes into the value category right, like I'm not enough, my body is failing me, I'm not doing what I'm supposed to, right, we start getting these negative beliefs about ourselves that cognitively we know are not true, because we would.

Speaker 2:
10:05

If our friend told us that would immediately go. That's not true, right, but when we say to ourselves, it feels very true and I think that guilt, like you mentioned earlier, plays a big part, kind of feeding that um and so working through changing those negative beliefs into positive truths about ourselves, which sometimes we need the help of EMDR therapy and you know they need the help of a therapist for that and that's okay, or a support group, or we just need other people to help us with that. Sometimes. But in language, instead of like my body is failing me, my body did the best it could today and just that small switch can really just alleviate some of the pressure to perform, which is a big damper on arousal and desire and pressure. So you're actually helping yourself through by alleviating some of that pressure.

Speaker 1:
11:01

Yeah, and I think I know. For me, you know, there's been times where I have been in the space of just trying to figure out what my body's even capable of, and then we tend to clamp down when we're worried about that. Right, yeah, it's hard to sometimes pull ourselves out of that space of fear and disappointment you know, that we're going to disappoint our partners again.

Speaker 1:
11:29

You know, and we're going to. What I was able to do today, Carrying that into the bedroom and into these settings is, I think, could probably help a lot of people reframe the way that they see intimacy and the way they see connection with their partner.

Speaker 2:
12:02

Yeah, something to add to that, as you were talking, that was another component that I think plays a big part is the um, the purpose of the time together.

Speaker 2:
12:14

And so if we walk into this going well, well, tonight's the night we like we have to have penetrative intercourse and like, this is what this means that, like you said, the anxiety is going to start going the you know, and then when we can't or we choose not to, there there's then all the guilt shows up or shame, and then so just all this happening and so going in very loosely of like hey, we're just going to spend time together tonight, phones down, tv off, let's get comfy, let's light a candle, let's set the mood, let's enjoy it. We can be sensual and not have any expectations over this meaning something or this having to be something, but just connection, and maybe that's just cuddling, maybe that's a back rub or caress, maybe that's just making out, maybe it is penetrative intercourse, but it takes off the pressure of this. Well, this is what this has to be, it's like it can be what we want it to.

Speaker 1:
13:09

Yeah, and that's something, too, that I think that we put on ourselves is that pressure to perform. And I think that I don't know about other people, but for myself I have this perfectionism mentality, sometimes just in everyday life, and when you can't do that in your everyday life, things that you're good at, whether it's your career, whether it's the things like helping your family or taking care of your family, and how that can translate into the bedroom and the trauma of all of that.

Speaker 1:
13:41

I think a lot of people, including myself, have walked through that before of like I feel like I need to perform. Now I need to be. Oh my God, I'm going to show up my best for this. There are days that you're just not, but sometimes just being okay with that. But how do you tell your partner this? How do you tell your partner I am not in a space where I can do this. I'm having a hard time and for some people this might be a new concept because maybe they haven't talked to their partners about this before.

Speaker 1:
14:10

But it's getting worse and they've got to talk to their partners or maybe they just can't do it anymore, and it's becoming more traumatizing each time that they do have penetrative sex. How do they talk about this with their partners?

Speaker 2:
14:26

I think one of the factors that comes up for me and I see most often in my office is the avoidance of talking about it because of fear of response.

Speaker 2:
14:38

Right, and really, when we kind of dig down, it's often a fear of rejection what if I say I can't and they don't accept me or they don't want me anymore, they don't pursue me anymore? Those are just some of the narratives I hear come out of the fear that kind of stops us and holds us from being emotionally and verbally vulnerable with our partner, herbal, with our partner. So one of the things that I work through is there's a really good book called People Fuel by John Townsend and he talks about relational nutrients and giving people the nutrients they need to thrive as a human, and I just love the language he uses in that book. But I introduced that he has a little handout. It's easy to find. It's free pdf downloads, like easy to find, but it talks about like giving acceptance, giving comfort, giving containment, giving encouragement, giving hope. So sometimes when we go to have hard conversations, a lot of times the person listening doesn't really know how to respond because they don't know what they're looking for right right they are like to you.

Speaker 2:
15:44

Do you want me to say it's okay? You want me to say I don't know what we're looking for, right, right, they are like to you. Do you want me to say it's okay? You want me to say I don't care? Do you want me to say, because the fact is, they probably do care, right, and it does impact.

Speaker 2:
15:54

That doesn't mean that love's not there, that doesn't mean they're not going to journey with you, but, like, they do have an experience this with you, um, and so I really encourage clients to read that, read the book, or at least review the PDF of the different relational nutrients and like what do you need? Oh, I really just need acceptance, what she defines as connection without judgment. I just need to know that you accept me when I say that I don't have energy to have sex. Yeah, right. And most, most partners are going to go okay, how can I do that? Yeah, or like this is hard for me, but I want to try to do that for you. Right, they're going to have their experience of it. But they want to engage because of the love and care in the relationship. Yeah, because of the love and care in the relationship.

Speaker 1:
16:44

Yeah, speaking about partners, what are some ways that partners can help those of us who have a chronic illness or have endometriosis or have trauma from their past, whether it be medical or body trauma of any sort?

Speaker 2:
17:00

Yeah, what I would encourage partners to do is to slow down. I think oftentimes we me included, I get in this mode. Sometimes we get into fixer mode, where we're just like you know what? I have a game plan and why don't we try this and we can do this, and have we thought about this? And not that there's a time and place for that, but most of the time, the person sitting in front of us just needs to be seen and connected with, and so my biggest encouragement to partners is to slow down and to just be present.

Speaker 2:
17:36

Yeah, be present with their partner, which also means they have to be present with themselves, which may be a new experience for them. But be present with your partner and just notice. Hey, I see that you've had the heat and pat out four times today and I know we're supposed to go on a date. Are you still okay to go on the date tonight? Just check in. Then, right, and you're like yeah, no, I am, I just was prepping Right. No, I am, I just was prepping right. Like whatever it may be, but just noticing being present to check in. Is that desire to be seen and cared for and loved at that level? I think, is. I think that can do a lot, do a lot for the soul, do a lot for a relationship, and so I. My biggest thing for partners is to slow down, be present, check in more, ask. It's okay to ask and to go. I don't know. I'm not going to assume I'm not in your head, I don't know. Can you tell me what's going on for you today?

Speaker 1:
18:32

Yeah, what are some tangible tools for partners to deal with? Maybe the frustration of the disease and ways, because I mean they do want that time with their partner. They do want to spend that intimacy and that time with someone, and sometimes that does involve sex.

Speaker 1:
18:54

And they want it, but it just keeps getting pushed off. It could be because of fear, it could be because of pain, it could be a multitude of things, multitude of things. But how are some ways that partners can communicate to us chronically ill people some of those desires? But also, how can they manage maybe? I don't want to say expectations, but ways that they can help talk to themselves about? And to their partners about the struggles that they're facing with this disease.

Speaker 2:
19:23

Yeah, I'm a big fan, I say this all the time. I'm like let's talk about talking about it. Yeah, you know, like let's take it one step back. And so being able to go in and go, hey, how can I approach you when I have a desire for intimacy, like what's the best way to do that, so that you know that I just desire you and I love you, and not an expectation of for you to perform or show out or show up in a certain way. So I think talking about it when it's not in the moment is helpful. So we're a little bit more regulated, we're a little bit more calm, have our more of our thinking brain operating, you know, so we can just maybe make better word choices or be able to control if our emotions come up, we can control how they're exhibited a little bit better. So I love encouraging, like let's talk about it in advance so we're not in the moment flailing around trying to figure this thing out together.

Speaker 2:
20:24

The other thing I want to encourage, encourage partners with, is like this is an experience that you are living in the junction to and living in part of your story as well.

Speaker 2:
20:37

So your experience and feelings matter and they do not matter more, right, and so they matter. It's good to like well, how do you feel when y'all had planned to have intimacy and now you're not sad, frustrated, okay, that's valid. And the why is also important, like why you're not having it, your partner's pain, your partner's, you know, maybe they had a doctor's appointment and they felt triggered and like that's important too, and so it's not no one's more important. No one's feelings are more important than the others, and so I always and cognitively I think everyone agrees with that we're like well, of course, but I think when we get in the moment and we have our eyes set on something and we have high desire, like we forget. So it's something I verbally speak a lot of, like you are valid, you are important, what you feel matters, and it does not matter more than the person sitting beside you matters and it does not matter more than the person sitting beside you, right?

Speaker 1:
21:36

Yeah, I mean, it's hard for us as the patients to not feel guilty about that, that they have to do that. Some people didn't know they were walking into this. Some people, some partners, didn't know that this was going to be the life that they were going to live, and they have to grieve that too, I think.

Speaker 2:
21:58

I don't think that we alone grieve that. I think it's a mutual thing.

Speaker 1:
22:01

There's a lot of grief in this disease, when trauma happens with partners, whether it's you are having sex and then all of a sudden something happens, pain happens, something flares, something triggers. For the partner's sake, is that something that the EMDR could help with as well, walking through that, and how? Because you know, I've talked to a couple of people who post-surgery had a cuff tear and it was very traumatizing for the partner, very traumatizing for the partner, very traumatizing for the partner, and it was a good long time of.

Speaker 1:
22:38

Am I hurting you? I'm just scared, you know, because they do care, they do love them.

Speaker 2:
22:51

How do?

Speaker 1:
22:51

you approach your clients, that kind of walk in, or those patients?

Speaker 2:
22:54

that come in, struggling with that to get over that part of their fear the partner fear. With that, to get over that part of their fear the partner fear. Yeah, I think I think mdr is a great choice. From mdr all the way, I think it's a great choice for both the person with the chronic illness and the partner. Especially. There's been, like you know, incidences or moments that you can like that stick in your brain or like come to the forefront, like that's great, even if there's not the NDR, still helpful, but those are very direct, like NDR can directly work through those. I also think when it's the couple that's been through it I'm getting, the trauma-informed sex therapist is great and huge, because what sex therapy looks like in the couple's context is slowing it down, teaching some communication exercises, coaching the couple on how and when to engage, let's debriefing the beliefs about sex and sexuality.

Speaker 2:
23:48

And it really helps to work through one of the questions asked every couple at on session three. It comes up every time almost uh, like have y'all ever grieved that together? And then there's always this like look of the little men, of like why, what? No, why would we? You know right, and I'm like that's so intimate to grieve that pain and that loss that y'all both experiencing, but to grieve it together. It was like wow, like how intimate, vulnerable is that to sit with someone, weep over something y'all both have lost and are losing sometimes. Yeah, you know, and the caveat with chronic illness which is why I love working with this population, because they're so resilient is that it is a continual loss right because it doesn't go away, and so there may.

Speaker 2:
24:42

There may be high seasons or good seasons, but they're like it. They're the loss will come again, and so the energy to grieve that, knowing that it could come again. People, we, we avoid, avoid pain. We do, we avoid pain in our human nature. We're like that's uncomfortable. No, thank you. But how vulnerable, intimate could that be? To sit with your partner and go. We've lost this and I'm sad with you and I'm grieving with you and I love you and I desire, desire you, and we can't fix it right now, and that's okay. We're just going to sit together in the fact that we're together in this, and I that's. I always ask couples that question because I'm like that could change things for you. Learning to do that can change a lot.

Speaker 1:
25:31

That's so good. These are the things that I think sometimes we need permission to hear, though I think a lot of us are in a. You know, I've certainly been in a space before where I've been afraid to address some of these things. I've been afraid to talk about some of these things. I don't want to ask my partner to do certain things or to not do certain things. I don't want to talk to my partner about it because I don't want to make it a bigger deal than it really is. But it is a big deal because we're all going through this and it is because of the nature of this disease and the things that we kind of encounter all the time our whole life, not to be a Debbie.

Speaker 1:
26:14

Downer but the reality of the disease is that we're going to have to continue talking about this and dealing with certain things that are going to be uncomfortable, and I, you know I've certainly had a grieving. I've definitely grieved over it. But I love that you say to do that together. And I will tell you just from personal experience.

Speaker 1:
26:37

When my husband and I have sat down and talked about some of the things that we've gone through because of this disease, it's been so healing for me to understand his perspective, because I thought I was alone in feeling certain things and when you can talk through it was alone in feeling certain things and when you can talk through it, you know, even if it's uncomfortable to talk through it, and it probably will be, and it probably will be, probably will be. Why is that? Why are we so ashamed to talk about these things when it's so healthy to do it? You know, because it can bring pain up. I think that, for me, is why I didn't want to. Can bring pain up.

Speaker 2:
27:18

I think that, for me, is why I didn't want to talk about it.

Speaker 1:
27:21

It's painful, it's triggering, you know, but it's so, so good, so good. Are there specific mindful or grounding techniques that you would recommend to help individuals feel safe and present during MIS-E, because that might also be helpful? In having these discussions.

Speaker 2:
27:40

Yes, I'm all for, like, practically, let's shoot it straight, right, right, I'm all for let's set the mood, okay. So if you like no lights, lights, dim candle, you like certain smells, you want certain sheets like, you want your little nightie that's all satin-y and all like, get comfortable. You want to wear your big, you know Mickey Mouse, lulu, wear it Like, do what feels comfortable for you. I think that's an important part. When we were able to feel comfortable in our environment, it's a little bit easier to feel comfortable in our skin. Yes, and so I'm a big proponent of that.

Speaker 2:
28:15

Some of the grounding exercises, because it's really easy for dissociation to occur in intimacy For men and women. I hear a lot of women, more women, report dissociating during intimacy because it's either painful or they're just ready, they're tired and they're ready for it to be over, or they weren't really feeling it, but they just feel like, sure, you know all those different factors and while that is effective in quote, unquote, getting the job done, I would argue that that's not healthy for you, because you deserve, deserve to feel, be present and enjoy things as well. Pleasure is pleasures for all, like it's not just for the partner right, and so being able to ground can really help stay focused and not dissociate. Some of those things are using our senses. A very common thing that people talk about is like the take five grounding, so it's five things. You see four things. You feel physically feel three things, you hear two things, you smell one thing, you taste, and so, like you can go through all that, or you can just pick one, like what's four things I feel right now through all that, or you can just pick one like what's four things I feel right now. Um, okay, I feel the sheet. Okay, I feel my hair on my neck. I feel right like the fans going, like whatever it may be. Right, noticing what you feel. That can really bring you into your body.

Speaker 2:
29:46

Some other great grounding exercises are to be able to slow down with your partner and, and so when I work with couples and I've done this a lot with couples who post-surgery or post-hysterectomy or post I've also done it with post-birth, really just kind of any major event too Right the genitals or the, the female organs we do the sexual retraining process, which is like a series of exercises which sex therapists use to work couples through regaining comfortability and safety and trust with their partner, which is, is I mean I, I joke all the time. I'm like clients aren't like oh, I love this. Like's not. No one's ever excited to see a therapist. Really, right, like it's okay, we've accepted that. We know that as therapists.

Speaker 1:
30:41

But we love you after, so that's really all that matters most of the time.

Speaker 2:
30:46

Yeah, but there's, we'll go do this exercise and come back and process it and they're like this was so good because I realized that you know it matters to me a lot how you know what words are spoken or not spoken, like that impacts me a lot, and so some of the retraining exercises work through and create scenarios to do that. But in that we work through. Do you like the room cooler or warmer? Can you ask for that? In the middle of intimacy, can you say, hey, I'm too cold right now. I'm like I'm thrown off, I need a blanket or I need can we bring the heater in here? Whatever it may be, that matters a lot to you being able to be present to enjoy. And so, once again, going back to communication, how can we talk to our partner about? Hey, this is what I need, either before, after or during?

Speaker 1:
31:44

intimacy. I think people need permission to even hear that.

Speaker 2:
31:49

Like, ask for what you need, ask for what you yeah, it's okay, and most of the time 99% of the time in intimacy there's. I'm not going to get into all the background of this research that was conducted. It was very interesting, but there was this research that showed that most male partners they enjoy sex and intimacy the most when they know that their partner is enjoying it and their female partner is enjoying it. So it's very interesting because I'm like I don't, they don't care, right, they would rather you stop and pause and turn, you know, the fan off and get a blanket right so that you can enjoy and be present than for you just to like make it through. And so I'm like, and usually I'll like turn and like, you know the male partner's like shaking their head out of it.

Speaker 1:
32:41

This is not the scenario where you fake it till you make it. This is the scenario you talk about it and you work through it, and if you can't fake it, you shouldn't not make it. You shouldn't fake it.

Speaker 2:
33:01

That's what I'm trying to say Right, yes, right, yes, right, and I think that's something else to talk through in advance is like what does it look like? Or how will you feel if I need to pause or stop halfway through? Right, like, because I think a lot of times, both parties and which is interesting because they there's a usually, like you know can't try this, but both feel, but they both feel guilty, they both feel sad, they both feel rejected to some degree, like there's this component of like oh, we're disconnected, and like I don't, you know, and it's like okay, your feelings are valid and I can all agree that together. Again, yeah, because me asking to pause is not me saying I don't want intimacy with you.

Speaker 1:
33:37

Yeah, you know, what I think is interesting too is I can only imagine for those people who force their way through this, or force themselves to do it because they think they should, how much more trauma that is adding to their bodies not only their bodies but their minds and their spirit, like everything that we try to protect, it in essence kind of hurts, and I think that's what you're kind of saying is it's you need to talk about this, you need to grieve this together so that you don't hold this in and you can be more present and you can desire it more, as opposed to I've got a headache, you know, like that old saying of like well, you've got a headache, you know, and there's truth to that, but I do think talking about that makes a huge difference in how our body responds to the stress of sometimes intimacy our body responds to the stress of, sometimes intimacy yeah, Something, I.

Speaker 2:
34:39

I love this little catchphrase. I forget who coined it, but it's. I can't truly say yes if I can't say no, and I think there's so much pressure that that is put on ourselves where we're like like you're allowed to say no, which means that when you say yes, you are 100% meanest. It's not a yes out of duty or obligation or shoulds, but it's a yes out of like desire. But I only get that when I have the freedom and ability to say no.

Speaker 1:
35:11

If this part one has resonated with you, then tune in next time for part two of this series with Mallory Oxendine. It will leave you informed and empowered to continue exploring different tools and aspects of intimacy and, until then, continue advocating for you and for others. Thank you.