Pelvic Pain And The Nervous System

Your Body Is Not Failing

SPEAKER_00
0:00

There's
so
many
people
living
in
bodies
that
feel
unpredictable,
tense,
and
even
unsafe.
They've
been
told
it's
just
stress
or
hormones
or
something
they
just
have
to
live
with.
But
what
if
your
body
isn't
failing
you?
What
if
it's
actually
trying
to
protect
you?
Today's
conversation
is
one
I've
been
really
looking
forward
to
because
we're
diving
into
a
part
of
health
that's
often
overlooked,
misunderstood,
and
honestly,
rarely
talked
about
in
a
way
that
actually
feels
helpful.
We're
talking
about
pelvic
health,
but
not
just
from
a
muscle
or
exercise
standpoint.
We're
looking
at
it
through
the
lens
of
the
nervous
system
and
how
our
bodies
respond
to
stress,
how
they
hold
tension,
how
they
protect,
and
sometimes
how
they
shut
down.
I'm
joined
by
Carla
Ellers,
a
pelvic
health
occupational
therapist
and
the
founder
of
Ocupelvic
Health
and
Wellness.
Her
work
is
rooted
in
meeting
people
exactly
where
they're
at
and
helping
them
understand
the
deeper
connection
between
their
nervous
system,
their
pelvic
floor,
and
their
everyday
lives.
In
this
episode,
we
talk
about
why
strengthening
alone
isn't
always
the
answer,
how
chronic
stress
and
pain
show
up
in
the
body,
especially
with
endometriosis,
and
most
importantly,
what
you
can
actually
start
doing
to
feel
safer,
more
connected,
and
more
supported
in
your
body.
This
is
a
conversation
that
I
think
so
many
people
need
to
hear.
Whether
you've
been
dealing
with
pelvic
pain,
navigating
endometriosis,
or
just
feel
disconnected
from
your
body
in
ways
you
can't
quite
explain,
this
one's
for
you.
So
stick
around.
Welcome

Meet Carla And Her Approach

SPEAKER_00
1:45

to
Indobattery,
where
I
share
my
journey
with
endometriosis
and
chronic
illness
while
learning
and
growing
along
the
way.
This
podcast
is
not
a
substitute
for
medical
advice,
but
a
supportive
space
to
provide
community
and
valuable
information
so
you
never
have
to
face
this
journey
alone.
We
embrace
a
range
of
perspectives
that
may
not
always
align
with
our
own,
believing
that
open
dialogue
helps
us
grow
and
gain
new
tools.
Join
me
as
I
share
stories
of
strength,
resilience,
and
hope.
From
personal
experiences
to
expert
insights.
I'm
your
host,
Alana,
and
this
is
Indobattery,
charging
our
lives
when
Indometriosis
drains
us.
Welcome
back
to
Indobattery.
Grab
your
cup
of
coffee
or
your
cup
of
tea
and
join
me
at
the
table.
Today
I'm
joined
by
Carla
Ellers,
a
pelvic
health
occupational
therapist
and
the
founder
of
Ocupelvic
Health
and
Wellness.
Carla's
work
goes
beyond
just
the
physical
side
of
pelvic
health.
She
focuses
deeply
on
the
connection
between
the
nervous
system
and
the
pelvic
floor
and
how
our
everyday
lives,
stress,
and
routines
shape
how
our
bodies
function
and
feel.
She's
helped
thousands
of
individuals
navigate
things
like
pelvic
pain,
dysfunction,
and
disconnection
from
their
bodies,
all
through
a
really
holistic,
compassionate
lens.
What
I
love
about
her
approach
is
that
it's
not
about
the
quick
fixes.
It's
about
meeting
people
where
they're
at
and
giving
them
tools
that
actually
support
real
lasting
changes.
Please
help
me
in
welcoming
Carla
Ellers
to
the
table.
Carla,
thank
you
so
much
for
sitting
down
with
me
today
and
taking
the
time
to
share
your
passion
and
your
expertise
with
us
because
I
know
that
this
is
going
to
help
someone
out
there
today,
and
I've
been
looking
forward
to
it.
So
thank
you
so
much.

SPEAKER_01
3:27

Yeah,
I'm
so
excited
to
be
here
and
how
we
connected
at
the
Endo
Summit
this
year.
We
had
just
a
great
time.
So
thanks
for
having
me.

SPEAKER_00
3:36

Yeah,
of
course.
You
got
in
the
introduction
to
the
chaos
crew,
is
what
I
like
to
call
us.
We
we
have
a
lot
of
fun.
That's
I
guess
the
perk
of
it,
right?
Yeah.
Yeah,
exactly.
So
before
we
get
started,
we
like
to
go
over
what
is
your
drink
order
of
the
day.

SPEAKER_01
3:55

Yes,
I
have
a
tea
today.
Uh
this
is
has
slippery
elm
and
marshmallow
root
in
it.
It's
like
really
good
for
our
digestion.
So
that's
what
I'm
drinking.

SPEAKER_00
4:06

You
would
have
something
good
for
digestion,
which
we'll
get
into
just
in
a
second
here.
And
then
I
have
twings,
like
the
tea,
came
out
with
refreshers
recently,
and
they're
just
like
a
mixed
refresher
with
like
little
chunks
of
uh
freeze-dried
mangoes
and
peaches
and
stuff.
Super
tasty.
So
that
sounds
good.
Yeah,
it's
a
good
summer
treat
that
isn't
full
of
like
junk,
it's
just
tea,
which
is
nice.
So
that's
my
word
for
the
day.
Before

Medical Trauma And Chronic Pain

SPEAKER_00
4:36

we
get
started,
fully
on
everything
that
you
do,
everything
that
we've
kind
of
gone
over
a
little
bit
previous
to
this
is
who
are
you?
Let
us
know
who
you
are,
how
you
got
into
this
space
as
an
occupational
therapist
for
public
floor,
because
this
is
an
interesting
thing
that
I
have
not
covered
yet.
So
the
more
we
get
to
know
about
you
and
how
this
started,
that
would
be
great.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
5:00

So
I'm
Carla
Ellers
and
my
background
is
an
occupational
therapist
since
2014.
So
I've
been
in
the
medical
system
for
a
while
now.
And
I
started
my
own
business,
Ocupublic
Health
and
Wellness,
a
few
years
ago,
just
wanting
to
get
out
of
the
system
of,
you
know,
the
chronic
dysregulation
within
the
whole
medical
field
and
starting
my
own
online
business
helping
women
to
overcome
chronic
pain
and
just
really
seeing
how,
you
know,
the
medical
trauma
that
so
many
women
have
go
through
from
the
gaslighting,
the
invalidation
for
so
many
years
of
trying
to
get
diagnosis
of
not
being
believed
and
just
not
getting
the
right
referrals.
And
so
that's
really
what
I
want
to
see.
My
voice
is
helping
women
to
get
the
expert
eyes
on
them
quicker,
just
like
a
lot
of
women
in
this
space
or
like
with
Endobattery
and
a
lot
of
the
other
advocates.
I
do
see
myself
not
only
as
a
therapist,
as
a
coach,
but
also
like
your
biggest
advocate
because
I'm
going
to
be
there
for
you
to
make
sure
like
the
other
people
in
the
medical
system
are
doing
their
job,
right?
Because
that
is
so
frustrating
when
when
a
lot
of
my
clients
and
patients,
they
they
know
their
bodies
more
than
the
doctors
in
the
medical
system.
And
just
having
that
that
validation,
that
confidence
to
say,
no,
like
this
is
actually
what's
going
on,
and
this
is
the
planning
care
that
I
deserve.
And
so
that's
kind
of
a
gist
of
what
I
do.
And
I
got
into
this
uh
kind
of
just
in
my
own,
my
own
journey
of
not
with
endometriosis,
but
with
chronic
pain.
But
in
high
school,
my
mom
took
me
to
see
a
mental
health
therapist
when
I
was
like
in
early
high
school.
I
didn't
have
any
confidence,
no
self-esteem.
And
I
went
to
one
therapist
meeting
and
out
of
town,
and
I
was
like,
I'm
never
going
back.
There
was
just
so
much
um
fear
about
that
already.
And
so
I've
kind
of
created
my
my
my
therapist
um,
you
know,
rapport
with
my
clients
based
off
of
that.
Like
this
does
not
have
to
be
some
fear-provoking
um,
you
know,
session
and
and
and
and
um
relationship.
And
so
um,
you
know,
a
few
years
later,
I
end
up
having
a
back
injury
and
just
go
into
like
the
actual
physical
therapy
and
seeing
some
improvement,
but
there's
just
so
much
more
to
pain,
pelvic
pain,
back
pain,
just
there's
so
much
more
to
pain
than
just
the
physical
tissues.
And
so
the
pain
is
a
sensory
and
emotional
experience.
That's
truly
the
definition
of
pain.
And
so
we
have
to
address
the
sensory
system,
we
have
to
address
the
emotional
system
and
all
of
that
that
is
an
interplay
within
pain
and
the
nervous
system.
So
um
it's
kind
of
a
different
approach.
And
then,
you
know,
we
talked
about
kind
of
digestion
already.
I
had
my
gallbladder
removed.
So,
you
know,
just
like
going
through
my
own
issues
with
that
and
not
having
any
guidance
or
anything
years
ago.
And
I
met
a
lot
of
women
at
the
Endo
Summit
that
we
were
sitting
at
a
table
and
there
were
five
of
us
that
all
had
our
gallbladders
removed.
I'm
like,
you
know,
like
it's
it's
a
very
more
it's
a
it's
a
correlation
that
I
don't
think
a
lot
of
people
realize
yet
that
there
are
there
are
a
lot
of
digestive
issues
and
outside
of
just
you
know
the
common
um
endobelly
bloating,
right?
There
there's
deeper
rooted
digestive
issues
that
um
are
further
exacerbating
the
inflammation
um
and
dysregulation
within
the
body.

SPEAKER_00
8:29

Yeah.

Meeting You Where You Are

SPEAKER_00
8:30

One
of
the
things
that
you
and
I
previously
had
talked
about
was
the
fact
that
in
what
you
do,
you
like
to
meet
people
where
they're
at.
What
does
that
look
like
in
the
practical
setting?

SPEAKER_01
8:43

Yeah.
So
meeting
someone
where
they're
at,
it
means
not
technically,
because
I
do
mostly
work
online,
right?
But
meeting
them
at
where
they're
at
and
just
really
truly
seeing
what
is
meaningful
to
you,
you
know,
what
is
impacted
by
your
chronic
pain,
by
the
trauma
you've
been
through,
and
what
do
you
want
to
get
back
to
doing?
It's
not
always
just
about
the
exercises,
right?
Like
that's
a
tool.
That's
a
tool,
you
know,
but
what
is
meaningful
to
you
and
how
can
we
grade,
you
know,
different
activities
back
or
you
know,
make
uh
change
the
pacing
and
change
the
your
environment
to
help
that
those
meaningful
activities
and
really
break
it
down
to
see,
you
know,
taking
it
like
baby
steps,
I
guess
is
what
we
could
say.
Um,
so
truly
just
saying
what
is
meaningful
to
you
and
what
do
you
want
to
get
back
to?
And
for
a
lot
of
women
with
endometriosis,
you
know,
jobs
are
affected,
which
means
you're
not
making
as
much
money,
which
causes
us
to
have
even
more
stress,
right?
And
so
what
I'm
really
passionate
about
is
helping
women
prepare
and
recover
from
these
excision
surgeries
so
that
you
can
get
back
to
work
and
make
a
living
and
feel
confident
in
yourself
because
that's
something
that's
not
talked
about
enough,
is
like
the
financial
piece
of,
you
know,
when
you
can't
make
uh
earn
a
living
for
yourself,
just
that
alone
is
dysregulating
to
our
nervous
system
because
you
are
in
constant
fight
or
flight.
You're
like,
where's
my
next
paycheck
gonna
be
coming
from?
And
so,
you
know,
I
know
there's
some
kind
of
talk
about
different
like
getting
on
disability
and
different
things
like
that,
which
that
could
be
helpful
for
some,
but
that
is
extremely
limiting,
you
know?
And
I
don't
want
women
to
feel
like
they
have
that
that's
their
only
option
is,
you
know,
like
is
getting
on
disability,
you
know,
like
how
can
we
work
through
this
and
figure
out
what
kind
of
occupation,
what
kind
of
job
can
be
geared
towards
your
strengths.
Right.
Right.
What
strengths
do
you
have?
Because
within
a
lot
of
the
the
groups
on
social
media
and
you
know,
we're
we're
we're
sharing
about
the
pain
and
the
frustrations
and
all
those
things.
But
you
know,
sometimes
we
do
need
to
take
a
step
back
and
be
like,
okay,
you
are
a
whole
person.
Yeah.
What
are
your
strengths?
And
there
are,
and
it's
so
hard
when
there
is
so
much
chronic
pain
and
the
trauma,
like
all
those
things
can
get
kind
of
pushed
down
and
be
hard
to
find.
So
it
is
kind
of
like
an
onion
peeling
that
back
and
kind
of
rediscovering
yourself,
especially
after
excision
when
pain
does
start
to
improve,
but
you
find
yourself
searching,
like,
oh,
is
it
gonna
come
back?
It's
like
that
that's
that's
trauma.
Is
that
that
shadow
trauma
that's
hidden,
like
kind
of
in
the
back
of
your
head,
and
just
always
wondering
if
it's
gonna
come
out,
like
that's
that
is
trauma.
And
you
know,
working,
working
through
that
is
not
talked
about
enough.

SPEAKER_00
11:36

Yeah.

Pelvic Floor Meets Nervous System

SPEAKER_00
11:37

It's
interesting
because
like
before
I
had
met
you,
I
really
hadn't
thought
about
like
the
OT
side
of
pelvic
pain
and
the
nervous
system.
And
I
think
like
what's
really
common
is
that
we
kind
of
separate
care
and
of
the
nervous
system
and
care
of
the
pelvic
floor
or
pelvic
floor
dysfunction.
We
tend
to
like
separate
those
two
things
into
two
different
categories.
And
I
think
what's
interesting
is
when
I
met
you
and
when
we
talked
about
this,
you
combine
the
two.
It's
not
just
a
musculoskeletal
issue,
it's
not
just
a
nervous
system
dysregulation
issue.
They
kind
of
go
hand
in
hand
a
lot
of
times.
Can
you
talk
to
us
just
a
little
bit
about
that
and
why
this
matters
so
much
and
combining
those
two
efforts?

SPEAKER_01
12:22

Yeah,
I
mean,
your
pelvic
floor
is
an
anticipatory
uh
function.
And
so
when
you
have
some
sort
of
stress
response
or
trauma,
you
know,
any
like
that's
going
to
tighten.
And
so
we
can
do
all
the
exercises
and
trying
to
relax.
And
but
when
the
when
there's
something
in
your
environment,
whether
it's
within
your
relationships,
with
work,
within
um
inner
turmoil,
inner
dysregulation,
if
those
are
coming
up
within
your
your
your
environment,
that's
going
to
cause
stress
somewhere
in
your
body.
And
when
there's
already
um,
you
know,
some
susp
susceptible
trauma
within
the
pelvic
area,
there's
already
pain
there.
Our
brain
is
our
already
guided
to
to
tighten
there
because
that's
been
your
response.
And
and
it's
it's
just
it's
a
protective
response.

SPEAKER_00
13:18

You
and
I
had
kind
of
done
a
a
call
before
this,
and
we
were
talking
about
that,
and
like
how
much
of
our
fears
and
our
freeze
and
our
flight
modes
and
all
of
that
really
translate
into
not
only
your
whole
body,
but
like
I
really
felt
in
my
core,
like
in
my
public
floor,
when
you
have
a
minute
to
disassociate
from
some
of
these
things
that
stop
you
in
your
path
and
cause
you
to
like
get
in
that
sympathetic
system
even
more.
When
you
have
time
to
downregulate
that
or
more
upregulate
your
parasympathetic
system,
it
uh
releases
that
tension
that
you're
holding
on
to.
Like
it's
amazing
to
me
when
we
worked
on
that,
just
how
much
I
was
holding
in
the
pelvic
floor.
And
there
were
like
simple
things
that
we
could
do
that
you
walked
me
through.
But
it
was
interesting
that
I
didn't
put
that
connection
together
of
how
much
we
hold
in
our
pelvic
floor.
And
then
on
top
of
that,
if
you
have
pain
and
you
have
trauma
within
that,
I
just
I
imagine
like
a
lot
of
times
our
automatic
response
in
that
scenario
is
to
tighten
that,
is
to
protect
and
to
guard.
And
when
that
happens,
then
we
see
the
fallout
through
our
whole
body,
not
just
our
pelvic
floor,
but
everything
in
our
body.
And
it
translates
back
into
the
brain.
It
feels
like
a
circle,
like
that
cycle,
that
hamster.
The
pain
cycle,
yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.

Functional Awareness And Interoception

SPEAKER_00
14:42

When
we
get
into
that
mode,
are
what
are
some
like
practical
tools
that
you
like
to
use
for
people
that
are
in
that
state
of
heightened
sympathetic
system
and
we
are
tense
everywhere,
which
I
tend
to
be
quite
often,
and
I
don't
even
realize
I'm
doing
it.

SPEAKER_01
14:59

So
the
first
thing,
and
then
we
had
talked
about
this,
is
that
functional
awareness.
We
have
to
have
awareness
around
something
before
we
can
truly
make
some
sort
of
change,
right?
And
so
just
being
able
to
be
like,
wow,
I
am
getting
a
little
upregulated.
I'm
feeling
more
anxious
and
driven.
And
one
thing
that
a
lot
of
people
don't
talk
about
is
like
we
do
need
some
of
that
fight
or
flight
to
get
through
our
day
that
gives
us
that
energy,
you
know.
So
it's
the
same
as
with
inflammation,
both
like
fight
or
flight
inflammation,
inflammation,
it
gets
kind
of
a
bad
rep,
but
we
need
both
of
those
things
to
have
homeostasis
within
our
body.
So,
but
it's
identifying
um
and
noticing
that
shift
within
ourselves.
So
maybe
for
some
people,
a
lot
of
the
women
I
work
with,
especially
if
they
have
pelvic
floor
dysfunction,
it's
that
tightening
within
within
the
pelvic
floor.
Maybe
it
could
be
tightening
in
the
jaw
or
in
the
upper
abs.
That
was
me
actually.
My
upper
abs.
I
was
an
upper
ab
gripper.
We're
just
holding
on,
trying
to
suck
it
in,
looking
good,
right?
And
or
maybe
in
our
in
our
glutes.
A
lot
of
people
hold
a
lot
of
tension
in
their
glutes.
So
it's
kind
of
identifying
and
bringing
some
mindfulness
to
your
daily
activities
of,
you
know,
maybe
I'm
just
sitting
here
waiting
for
a
doctor's
appointment,
but
I'm
so
nervous
and
I'm
literally
squeezing
my
glutes.
And
can
we
bring
some
awareness
to
that
or
wherever
you're
at,
whatever
daily
thing
is
is
causing
you
stress?
Maybe
for
for
some
moms,
it's
it's
you
know,
children
screaming,
and
that's
something
we
can
get
into
too
is
this
part
of
our
nervous
system,
you
know,
is
that
auditory
processing.
And
so
even
that
can
make
us
feel
even
more
into
dysregulation
without
even
realizing
it.
So
it's
kind
of
noticing
cha
subtle
changes
within
our
body
before
it
gets
to
10
out
of
10
pain.
Right.
And
so
there's
a
term,
it's
called
interoception.
And
this
is
where
we
can
have
identifying
sensations
within
our
body
of
hunger,
needing
to
go
to
the
bathroom,
pain.
And
when
there
is
chronic,
chronic
pain,
um,
any
kind
of
um
neurodivergence,
interoception
is
um,
it's
kind
of
diminished,
or
it's
either
it's
it's
it
can
be
hyper
hyper-aware,
right
to
a
point
where
it's
hard
to
even
identify
other
sensations
that
are
happening
within
the
body.
So
it's
kind
of
that
finding
that
that
happy
medium
of
can
we
bring
some
mindfulness
to
the
body
outside
of
just
pain,
right?

SPEAKER_00
17:42

Yeah,
and
that's
like
that's
what
was
interesting.
Like
when
you
and
I
were
talking
about
this,
is
that
I
was
completely
unaware
of
the
fact
that
those
little
things,
especially
with
that
neurodivergent
piece,
like
how
much
I
was
holding
on
to
just
those
little
pieces.
And
I
I
didn't
recognize
that.
Like
you
would
ask
me,
you're
like,
what
is
something
that
really
gets
you
going?
You
know,
like
in
that
mode.
And
I
was
like,
I
honestly
don't
know.
I
feel
like
I'm
good
most
of
the
time.
And
then
I
started
thinking
back
and
walking
through
that
with
you,
and
I
was
like,
oh,
okay,
this
is
what
you
mean.
It
it's
like
little
triggers,
especially
if
you're
neurodivergent,
like
where
you're
you
hold
on
to
things
and
you
and
you,
you
know,
ruminate
on
a
lot
of
these
things,
and
your
body
is
like
telling
you,
okay,
we're
we're
holding
on
and
we're
gonna
fight
this
for
you.
But
it's
like
almost
to
the
extreme,
and
you
don't
even
realize
it.

SPEAKER_01
18:39

Yeah.
And
a
lot
of
that,
you
know,
can
be
with
so
much
frustration
within
the
medical
system,
right?
Because
a
lot
of
it
is
outside
of
your
control,
and
you're
trying
to
even
just
call
to
schedule
an
appointment
and
you're
on
hold
forever,
and
then
you
just
end
up
giving
up.
So
it's
like
it's
all
of
that
on
top
of
it
too,
right?
And
so,
you
know,
being
able
to
have
different
systems
to
say,
okay,
that's
not
happening
today.
I'm
gonna
try
tomorrow.
And,
you
know,
is
your
is
your
brain
and
um
your
nervous
system,
is
it
perseverating
on
those
too
much?
And
how
can
we
um,
you
know,
bring
in
some
different
tools
to
help
not
distract,
but
it's
kind
of
that
deep
retraining
of,
okay,
taking
it
off
of
my
plate
here,
we're
moving
on
to
to
something
new
that's
nourishing
for
my
system.

SPEAKER_00
19:32

What
are
some
cues
for
that
functional
awareness
though?
Because
I
think
there's
probably
a
lot
of
people
that
are
like,
what
does
that
even
look
like?
How
can
we
tell
from
those
little
things
when
we
don't
take
the
time
to
like
really
sit
and
be
maybe
as
mindful?
Because
we're
going
through
our
day,
right?
Like
we
are
a
lot
of
times
even
just
surviving
through
our
day.
So
what
does
that
functional
awareness
look
like
practically?
Well,
I
might
ask
you
that.
Okay.
I
don't
I
don't
know
all
the
time.
That's
I
mean,
that's
truly
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
I'm
really
working
on
is
like,
what
does
that
look
like
for
me?
And
I
think
a
lot
of
times
for
me,
I
recognize
it
probably
more
in
my
upper
traps.
Like
I
can
feel
this
motion
of
my
shoulders
going
up
and
that
tension.
And
I
if
I
find
myself
like
reaching
back
and
like
massaging
my
upper
traps
more
and
things
like
that,
I
can
feel
that.
And
then
a
lot
of
times
for
me,
if
I
were
to
stop
and
really
think
about
it,
I
think
for
me
it's
noticing
my
inability
to
fully
take
a
deep
breath.
Like
that's
something
that
I
feel
like
is
really
hard
when
I'm
holding
on
to
that
tension.
Is
like,
and
I
don't
like
again,
I
don't
recognize
in
myself
that
I'm
holding
on
to
that.
It's
if
I
stop
and
think
about
it,
then
I'm
like,
oh,
I
can't
really
take
a
whole
deep
breath
without
wanting
to
hyperventilate.

unknown
20:56

You
know?

SPEAKER_00
20:57

So
maybe
that's
for
me,
that's
been
one
of
those
signals
and
cues.
But
I
think
it's
probably
different
for
everyone.

SPEAKER_01
21:05

And
for
you,
you
know,
from
things
that
you
shared,
you
know,
I
would
encourage
you
when
you
are
turning
inward,
right?
With
with
focusing
on
that
breath,
you
know,
maybe
maybe
the
deep
breath
isn't
something
that
is
really
safe
for
your
body.
And
this
is
why
an
individualized
approach
is
is
so
important.
Because
we
can
talk
about
taking
those
deep
breaths,
but
for
you
know,
for
someone
who
maybe
is
hypermobile
and
has
some
different
deficits,
that
that
that
alone
can
can
feel
unsafe.
And
so
I
like
that
you
brought
up
like
hiking
the
shoulders
because
those
upper
traps
come
up.
And
so
if
you
think
about
it,
if
your
shoulders
are
coming
up,
what
do
you
think
your
public
floor
is
doing?

SPEAKER_00
21:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01
21:48

It's
also
likely
coming
up
and
tightening.
And
so
I
like
to
when
if
you
notice
that
first
go
into
it
with
bring
up,
bring
them
up
even
more,
and
then
you
can
feel
the
release.
As
you
come
back
down.
So
if
you
notice,
and
and
so
maybe
this
could
be
like
when
you're
driving,
are
you
tense
like
this?
Because
you
know,
you're
it
is
kind
of
stress
stressful
because
you're
driving,
but
can
you
bring
some
some
um
body
awareness
during
that?
Or,
you
know,
another
like
just
picking
um
an
activity
that
you're
doing
a
lot,
like
a
lot
of
women
are
washing
dishes
if
they
have
kids,
you
know,
like
what
is
what
can
you
be
doing
while
you're
washing
dishes
that's
nourishing
for
your
nervous
system
to
stay
present.
And
so
kind
of
maybe
focusing
on
the
weight
bearing
in
your
feet
or
feeling
the
sensation
of
the
water
on
your
hands,
bringing
some
grounding
approach
to
these
daily
activities.

SPEAKER_00
22:44

Yeah,

Hypermobility And Feeling Safe

SPEAKER_00
22:45

and
that
uh
something
you
brought
up
was
like
the
hypermobility
piece.
So
to
put
this
in
perspective,
that
deep
breath
sensation,
for
me,
I
have
what
they
call
slipping
rib
syndrome,
which
is
essentially
where
my
ribs
slip
out
of
place
when
I
stretch
or
take
a
deep
breath.
So,
like
if
I'm
on
all
fours
and
I'm
doing
like
a
cat
cow,
or
if
I'm
doing
um
taking
deep
breaths
and
on
all
fours,
trying
to
get
that
inflation
into
my
chest,
a
lot
of
times
my
rib
will
slip
out
and
it's
a
very
uncomfortable
feeling.
So
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
times
that
taking
that
deep
breath
can
cause
that
fear.
So
that's
kind
of
like
what
we
were
talking
about.
Like
it
causes
that
tension.
And
I
think
that's
something
that
for
me,
as
someone
who's
hypermobile,
that's
a
really
hard
thing
to
break,
is
that
fear
of
hurting
myself,
the
fear
of
causing
more
pain
or
harm
to
my
body,
because
our
bodies
are
so
unpredictable.
For
those
people
that
have
those
really
unpredictable
bodies
who
tend
to
be
a
little
bit
more
bendy
or
even
can
flare
just
in
the
simplest
ways,
are
there
tools
or
tricks
that
can
be
helpful
for
those
people
who
can't
maybe
identify
when
something's
gonna
happen
right
away
because
our
bodies
are
unpredictable.

SPEAKER_01
24:01

Right.
So
for
that
in
particular,
I
would
encourage
you
to
play
with
maybe
different
positions,
you
know,
maybe
providing
more
support
to
the
ribs.
So
maybe
hands
and
knees
breathing
wouldn't
be
as
supportive
as
maybe
if
you
were
positioned
on
your
back
where
the
back
part
of
your
ribs
were
more
supported
from
on
the
on
the
ground.
Um,
you
know,
seeing
if
maybe
taping
could
help
have
some
compression
there
to
make
that
feel
a
little
bit
safer.
Um
so
that's
just
what
I
can
think
of
for
that
particular,
you
know,
scenario.
It's
really
it's
tr
trying
different
things,
but
just
changing
and
pacing
it
a
little
bit
because
when
we
do
try
to
change
things
too
much,
we're
like,
okay,
I
don't
really
know
what
what
was
helpful.
And
so
that
is
that
slow
controlled
pacing
piece
that
is
very
important
so
that
we
can
adapt
to
figure
out
what
actually
is
supportive
and
feeling
safe
for
your
body.

SPEAKER_00
25:07

Yeah.
Do
you
work
with
people
as
well
to
help
feel
safe
in
their
bodies
again
for
that
unpredictable
body?
Because,
like,
as
someone
who
has
for
a
long
time
not
felt
safe,
like
it's
your
our
bodies
are
throwing
us
for
a
wing-ding,
if
you
will,
pretty
frequently.
And
so
it's
that
feeling
of
like,
and
I
think
this
is
where
that
gets
into
that
nervous
system
dysregulation
too,
right?
Like
where
we
just
don't
feel
safe
in
our
bodies
anymore.
We
don't
know
what
it's
gonna
throw
at
us,
we
don't
know
like
why
things
are
happening
the
way
they
are.
And
so
I
think
with
that,
for
me,
I
recognize
like
that's
probably
causing
some
of
that
dysregulation
within
my
nervous
system.
How
do
we
combat
that?
Like
as
people
where
that's
a
constant
battle.

SPEAKER_01
25:54

Yeah,
I
I
immediately
think
of
when
I'm
coaching
women
on
feeling
safe
within
their
bodies,
particularly
in
preparation
for
excision
surgery.
Because
ideally,
I
would
like
to
work
with
women
before
surgery
so
you
can
have
a
baseline
of
what
movements
do
feel
good
for
you.
Because
after
excision,
we
don't
want
to
be
throwing
new
exercises
and
movements
at
you.
You
want
to
already
know,
like,
oh,
this
one
feels
really
good
for
me.
This
is
my
go-to,
right?
And
so
that's
why
I'm
really
proactive
about
getting
women
before
surgery
so
we
can
work
on
those
calming
techniques
and
retraining
that
system
so
that
after
surgery,
when
that
we
have
that
clean
slate,
because
your
surgeon
got
rid
of
all
that,
that
um,
that
tissue,
right?
And
we
can
move
forward
versus
constantly
back
on
the
internet.
Oh,
what
should
I
do
now?
What,
you
know,
like,
and
just
having
that
support.
Um,
and
so
feeling
safe
within
your
body
is
so
individualized
because
your
experience
with
the
slip
rib,
like
that's
not
the
same
for
everybody,
right?
And
so
this
individualized
approach
really
uh,
especially
when
it
comes
to
nervous
system
healing,
it's
more
than
just
different
tapping
strategies
and
you
know,
different
humming,
like
those
are
all
vagal
vagus
nerve
toning
strategies
to
help
our
vagus
nerve.
But
if
if
you're
if
your
system
is
still
having
unsafe
feelings
outside
of
these
strategies,
like
what
else
is
it?
Yeah,
what
else
is
going
on?

SPEAKER_00
27:33

Yeah.
Well,
and
if
anyone's
like
me,
I
like
predictability.
Like
I
like
to
know
what
we're
doing.
And
the
nervous
system
loves
predictability,
yes.
Yeah.
And
I
feel
really
unsettled
when
I
don't
know
what's
gonna
happen.
I
think
that's
where
for
a
lot
of
us,
like
that's
where
that
dysregulation
comes
from,
is
just
not
knowing,
right?
And
I
think
especially
if
you
have,
if
you're
neurodivergent,
if
you're
ADHD,
autism
spectrum,
there's
a
lot
of
times
that
the
unknown
is
frightening
and
it's
it
creates
a
lack
of
trust
within
our
bodies
in
and
of
themselves.
So
knowing
that
there
is
a
baseline,
that
there's
something,
there's
that
home
base,
right?
Like
there's
that
predictable
place
that
you
can
lean
on,
I
think
has
got
to
be
helpful.
I
wish
I
had
that
in
my
excision
surgery.
I
was
literally
like
floundering
in
the
wind,
I
felt
like,
because
I
had
no
idea,
A,
what
I
was
doing,
but
B,
I
just
didn't
really
know
how
to
cope
with
my
new
reality
post-excision.
You
know,
for
me,
obviously
I
had
my
excision
surgery,
hysterectomy,
and
all
of
that.
So
hormones
were
off
on
top
of
that.
So
everything
was
just
chaotic
in
my
mind.
And
I
think
that
the
healing
process
was
much
harder
because
of
that.
And
so
I
wish
I
would
have
had
like
that
safe
space
going
back
to
my
journey.
But
good
news
is
that
it's
never
too
late
to
get
back
to
that
place
of
like
safety
and
security,
right?
Yeah,
you're
creating
it
for
yourself
now.
Yeah.

Nervous System States And Co-Regulation

SPEAKER_00
29:06

If
someone
is
listening
and
realizing,
hmm,
this
might
be
me,
what's
the
first
place
that
they
can
start?

SPEAKER_01
29:12

Well,
like
we
say,
kind
of
having
that
functional
awareness
for
themselves
and
first
just
noticing
when
you
are
becoming
dysregulated.
And
when
we
talk
about
the
nervous
system,
a
lot
of
people
know
fight
or
flight.
That's
that
sympathetic
nervous
system,
that's
that
upregulation,
you're
feeling
anxious,
stressed.
But
when
we
get
to
that
tipping
point,
we're
going
down
into
overwhelm
and
hopelessness.
And
that's
on
the
opposite
end
of
this
nervous
system
spectrum.
And
that
is
called
dorsovagal
state.
And
so
we
kind
of
need
to
understand
that
when
we're
up
here
and
we're
we're
fight
or
flight,
we're
going
on,
we
need
something
grounding
to
bring
us
down.
But
when
we're
in
the
hopelessness
and,
you
know,
that
part
of
depression,
we
need
something
to
mobilize
out
of
that,
right?
And
so
for
both
of
these,
um,
there's
a
third
piece
to
our
nervous
system.
It's
called
ventral
vagal
state.
And
that's
where
um
we
use
other
people's
nervous
systems,
that
socialization
piece.
And
that's
why
I'm
so
um,
I
love
group
training
and
group
um
support
group,
but
for
me,
like
group
retraining,
like
truly
using
other
people's
nervous
systems
to
help
yourself.
And
so
when
we're
when
we're
all
the
way
up
here,
we
need
to
be
mindful
that,
okay,
what
are
some
what
are
some
grounding
activities
to
help
bring
me
down?
And
when
we
are
down
here,
when
we're
feeling
helpless
and
in
that
depression,
what
are
some
safe
movements
to
bring
you
out
of
that?
And
so
how
and
how
can
you
um
incorporate
the
socialization?
Because
there's
um
another
term
it's
called
co-regulation,
and
that's
when
our
nervous
systems
are
speaking
with
each
other.
And
so,
even
right
now,
between
us,
you
know,
through
eye
contact
and
through
having
nice
facial
expressions,
these
are
all
really
soothing
for
our
nervous
system.
Because
I
don't
know
if
you've
if
you've
noticed
if
you've
walked
into
a
doctor's
office
and
the
front
desk
lady
or
even
the
doctor
just
comes
in
and
you
know,
they
you
can
tell
they
don't
give
a
crap.
And
your
nervous
system
feels
that,
right?
Yes,
that
is
co-regulation,
you
can
feel
that.
There's
another
term,
it's
called
neuroception.
Our
body
is
always
scanning,
always
scanning
for
safety,
always.
And
so
when
we
do
have
that
that
soft
eye
contact,
that
those
nice
facial
gestures,
that
is
telling
our
nervous
system
that
this
is
safe.
And
so
this
is
really
important
to
understand
with
your
spouse,
your
partner,
family
members,
and
and
and
it's
frustrating
for
women
who
do
experience
chronic
pain
and
endometriosis.
A
lot
of
them
feel
like
their
families
don't
understand.
And,
you
know,
so
so
this
is
where
that
piece
of
co-regulation
is
really
important.
And
if
you
don't
have
that
within
your
family
or
your
relationship,
that's
why
my
group
is
important.
That's
why
other
groups
are
important,
right?
So
you
can
find
that
validation,
that
nervous
system
safety
with
other
people,
because
nervous
system
healing
cannot
happen
alone.
That's
one
of
the
foundational
pieces
of
foundate
of
nervous
system
healing,
is
it
cannot
happen
alone.
We
have
to
have
another
nervous
system
to
help
us
to
co-regulate.
And
that's
where
some
of
this
when
chronic
pain
can
be
exacerbated
through
stress,
when
you
do
have
maybe
a
fight
with
your
spouse,
if
we
don't
understand
that
those
two
nervous
systems
are
communicating
together,
um,
then
that's
going
to
further
cause
that
dis
that
cycle,
that
dysregulation.

SPEAKER_00
32:53

That's
fascinating.
I
never
knew
that
it
part
of
like
healing
that
dysregulation
is
being
in
community
with
others.
Like
I
always
knew
that
was
so
important
to
me.
You
know,
when
we
started
Indovillage,
it
was
like
one
of
the
things
that
we
really
grasped
onto
is
the
fact
that
we
were
in
this
community
together.
We
knew
it
was
healing,
right?
Like
we
have
this
sense
of
it.
We
feel
it.
We
know
that
we
feel
better
once
we're
done.
And
it's
so
funny
that
you
mentioned
that
because
it
was
like
there's
so
many
times
where
I
am
tired,
I
am
feeling
even
overwhelmed,
and
I
I
don't
really
like
want
to
go
sometimes,
if
I'm
being
honest.
And
I
get
there
and
I'm
so
like
there's
something
about
being
in
that
community
of
people
who
get
it,
who've
been
there
themselves
when
we're
laughing
and
we're
sharing
jokes
and
you
know,
whatever
the
case
is.
And
then
I
come
home
and
I'm
yes,
I'm
tired
because
that
I'm
I'm
so
like
full.
Like
it's
been
a
lot,
but
it's
also
been
so
healing
to
sit
in
space
with
these
people.
And
I
just
never
put
the
fact
that
that
is
tied
to
my
nervous
system
as
well.
Yeah,
it
is.
That's
crazy.
That's
crazy.
There's
science
behind
it,
yes.
Well,
and
I
knew
there
was,
and
I
just
I
don't
know
why
the
two
dots
did
not
connect
that
there's
an
actual
term
for
this,
and
that
there's
an
like
I
knew
there
was
science,
but
it
wasn't
like
I
didn't
realize
how
much
it
was
personally
doing
for
my
nervous
system
and
how
much
your
nervous
system
needs
that.
Like
it's
yeah,
it's
restorative
to
be
in
community.

SPEAKER_01
34:25

Yeah.
And
that's
why
it's
so
important
to
have
community
who
does
have
a
strength-based
approach
because
there
are
a
lot
of
the
groups
online,
you
know,
on
your
Facebook
feed,
if
something's
popping
up
every
day
of
someone
um
sharing
their
pain,
and
you
know,
a
lot
of
women,
especially
if
they're
neurodivergent,
you
know,
we
have
a
there's
a
lot
of
empathy
and
you
can
feel
those
feelings.
And
so
that's
kind
of
being
brought
up
too.
So
being
mindful
of
that
environment
on
your
phone,
like
if
if
there
is
a
lot
of
turmoil
that
keeps
popping
up
in
your
visual
field,
um,
you
know,
that's
dysregulating
alone.
So
really
finding
a
space
that
is
a
strength-based
approach
for
your
healing.

SPEAKER_00
35:11

Yeah.
Well,
and
that's
like
one
of
those
things
that
I
always
tell
people,
I'm
like
online
support
groups
can
be
really
helpful,
but
also
like
in
person,
just
that
actual
touch
and
that
face-to-face
is
so
powerful
to
being
in
community
with
people.
Like
at
the
Endo
Summit,
right?
Yeah,
exactly.
Yeah,
yeah.
And
just
like
the
laughter
that
comes
from
it,
that
you
don't
you
would
not
get
that
online.
Like
it
just,
it
just
as
hard
as
you
could
try,
you
would
just
feel
like
you're
talking
over
each
other
all
the
time.
And
but
you
think
about
going
and
having
a
seat
at
the
table
with
multiple
people
and
how
fun
that
is.
Yes,
it
can
be
overwhelming
for
those
of
us
who
have
sensory
issues
sometimes,
but
in
the
right
context,
I
think
that
just
allows
your
body
to
just
take
a
breath
sometimes
too.
If
it's
the
right,
the
right
scenario,
the
right
group
of
people.
Yeah.
Could
be
the
opposite
for
some
situations.
But
but
in
general,
yeah,
like
the
endosomet,
we
it
was
like
we
sit
there
and
we
laugh,
but
it's
we
laugh
about
the
things
that
sometimes
bring
us
pain,
right?
It's
not
that
we're
necessarily
dismissing
or
diminishing
the
pain,
it's
that
we're
using
that
pain
and
laughing
at
kind
of
the
things
that
we've
gone
through.
And
for
me,
that's
healing
to
just
know
that
many
of
us
have
gone
through
it
and
we
can
laugh
about
some
of
that
stuff.

SPEAKER_01
36:30

Yeah.

Spoon Theory Versus Your Real Capacity

SPEAKER_01
36:31

And
I
wanted
our
conversation
we
had,
we're
talking
about
um
the
spoon
theory.
And
I
wanted
to
chat
with
that
about
you
because
your
analogy
was
really,
really
insightful.

SPEAKER_00
36:43

Yeah.
So
the
analogy,
so
I
have
a
hard
time
to
be
fair.
This
podcast's
name
kind
of
was
based
off
of
this
spoon
theory
in
the
sense
that
like
we
only
have
so
much
to
give.
How
do
we
recharge?
How
do
we
get
some
of
those
spoons
back,
type
of
thing?
But
the
spoon
theory
hasn't
really
served
me
well
in
my
mind.
My
mind
doesn't
connect
with
it
as
well.
I
just
have
a
harder
time
picturing
it
and
understanding
it
and
then
living
that
out.
And
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
had
kind
of
talked
about,
and
I've
talked
about
this
before
in
the
podcast,
is
that
I
think
of
in
the
chronic
illness
space,
I
think
of
it
like
this.
If
there
is
a
buffet,
we
many
people
can
grab
just
like
a
normal
dinner
plate
and
fill
it,
right?
And
they
kind
of
know
when
to
stop
and
they
or
they
know
like
they
have
enough
room
to
taste
all
the
things.
For
chronic
illness,
we
have
a
six-inch
six-inch
plate
as
opposed
to
like
a
12-inch
plate.
So
we
have
to
be
super
mindful
about
what
we
put
on
our
plate
before
everything
kind
of
just
gets
one
big
blob
and
it
starts
falling
off
and
it
gets
overwhelmed
and
it
starts
overflowing,
and
it
the
taste
of
it
isn't
as
good
because
it's
mixing,
you
know,
green
beans
with
peaches.
Like
it
just
doesn't
mesh
well,
right?
And
so,
in
my
mind,
as
chronic
illness
people,
we
have
to
be
mindful
of
our
smaller
plate
and
add
what's
really
important,
but
we
also
need
to
add
like
the
sweet
spot,
right?
Like
we
need
our
nutrients,
we
need
our
our
our
nucleus,
the
things
that
keep
us
going.
But
we
also
need
to
have
the
ability
to
have
that
thing
that
fuels
our
soul,
those
sweet
things
that
we
crave
as
well.
But
it
may
not
be
a
big
piece,
it
may
be
something
small,
as
long
as
we're
getting
a
little
bit
and
not
overflowing
our
plate.
So
that's
kind
of
like
what
I
think
of
is
the
buffet
plate.
Like,
how
much
can
you
carry
on
your
plate
and
how
big
is
your
plate?
Ours
just
I
feel
like
is
much
smaller
than
typical
people's
plate
is.

SPEAKER_01
38:39

So
yeah,
I
I
like
that
that
a
lot.
And
part
of
me
does
has
some
skepticism
about
the
spoon
theory
too,
because
let
me
tell
you
why,
it
is
an
energy
conservation
technique,
right?
So
we're
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
best
conserve
energy
physically,
right?
And
so
we're
figuring
out
how
many
spoons
you
need
to
take
a
shower,
to
go
to
the
grocery.
But
just
because
you
are
physically
resting
and
watching
TV
or
whatever
you
are
doing
for
resting,
right?
How
do
you
know
your
nervous
system
is
not
all
already
spiraling?
Because
that
can
take
so
much
energy
already.
And
that's
what
I
see
a
lot
is
that
we're
trying
to
save
all
this
energy
for
physical
activity,
but
so
much
energy
can
be
consumed
when
we
are
sedentary
and
spiraling.
Yeah,
that's
going
to
take
just
as
much
uh
energy.
So
creating
those
spoons
for
yourself,
but
also
realizing
bringing
that
functional
awareness
piece
to
okay,
I
am
resting
here,
but
is
my
nervous
system
truly
at
rest?
And
what
could
I
do
to
try
to
find
some
peace
within
myself?

SPEAKER_00
39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01
39:53

To
to
save
some
of
that
energy,
some
of
that
energy
that
I
need
to
to
have
the
focus
to
do
the
hard
phone
call,
to
create,
you
know,
all
these
um
executive
functioning
things
that
have
to
happen
within
our
brain,
they
they
do
take
energy,
but
a
lot
of
that
energy
gets
gets
taken
away
when
we
are
kind
of
silently
spiraling,
right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00
40:20

Well,
and
I
actually
think
that's
and
that's
so
true
because
there
are
a
lot
of
times
that
people
fuel
themselves
by
being
active.
So
it's
not
necessarily
the
active,
I
think,
as
much
as
it
is
like
that
that
emotional
cognitive
battery,
if
you
will.
Because
I
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
times
that
I
may
not
be
as
physically
active,
but
I
am
exhausted
emotionally
and
mentally.
And
it
does
create
a
physical
exhaustion.
But
if
I
get
out
and
I
start
moving
my
body,
then
I
feel
more
energized.
I
feel
like
I
can
give
more
to
the
things
that
are
important
to
me,
whether
that's
my
family,
whether
that's
my
work,
whatever
the
case
is,
like
there
is
an
element
to
that
that
I
think
it's
more
than
just
physical.
It's
it's
that
bandwidth,
right?
Like
it's
your
capacity
in
any
way
that
is,
whether
that's
physical,
emotional,
mental.
And
you
and
I
kind
of
talked
a
little
bit
about
this
because
there
are
times
that
in
my
brain,
I
have
a
really
hard
time
accomplishing
things
if
I
feel
overwhelmed.
And
I
think
a
lot
of
us
on
um
any
sort
of
spectrum,
it
it's
really
hard
for
us
to
organize
the
things
that
we
need
to
do
and
prioritize
things
when
it
feels
like
it
is
a
mess
everywhere.
And
that's
kind
of
what
I
mean
by
like
having
what
you
can
carry
on
your
plate,
because
I
do
think
that
there's
that
piece
of
it
where
everything
just
gets
muddled
and
everything
feels
overwhelming
and
you
start
spilling
over
in
every
area
of
your
life.
And
for
me,
like
if
I
don't,
if
I'm
not
aware
and
if
I
I'm
a
list
person,
like
I
need
to
make
my
lists
to
make
sure
that
I'm
like
accomplishing
things.
But
then
if
I
don't
accomplish
those
things,
I
am
automatically
in
this
heightened
state
of
like
freak
out,
you
know,
and
that
wrecks
my
nervous
system
too.
So
there's
like
so
many
different
components
to
this,
and
that's
why
that
individual
individualized
care
makes
such
a
difference.
But
I
know
so
many
of
us
struggle
with
this,
is
like
it's
not
just
physical,
it's
mental,
it's
emotional,
it's
spiritual,
it's
all
of
those
things
put
together,
create
that
plate,
you
know?

Sensory Toolkits And Daily Regulation

SPEAKER_00
42:26

So
I
like
that
perspective
on
that.
Can
you
share
with
us
just
two
to
three
simple
tools
to
help
regulate
the
nervous
system?
So
we've
kind
of
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
tapping
and
the
breathing
and
things
like
that,
but
what
are
like
a
couple
things
that
help
regulate
our
nervous
system
that
also
help
our
pelvic
floor?
Right.

SPEAKER_01
42:46

So
we
talked
about
the
functional
awareness
and
kind
of
seeing
where
you
are
holding
that
tension.
And
so
this
is
where
it
comes
to
be
individualized
because
when
we're
trying
to
bring
in
um
ways
to
kind
of
hack
your
nervous
system,
it's
like
what
kind
of
sensations
do
feel
good
for
you,
right?
And
so
someone
might
like
compression
versus
maybe
a
light
touch.
And
so
I
kind
of
doing
what
what
what
we
like
to
get
into,
it's
like
a
sensory
profile,
and
we
have
to
figure
out
what
sensations
are
regulating
to
your
new
nervous
system.
And
so
a
lot
of
people
can
really
identify
with
I
have
pain
with
with
this,
you
know,
like
maybe
am
I
sciatic,
right?
You
know,
and
so
outside
of
that,
what
sensations
do
feel
good
for
you?
Right.
And
so
what
movements
feel
good.
And
so
kind
of
switching
your
mindset
to
searching
for
things
that
are
regulating
to
your
body
and
do
feel
good
and
that
nourish
your
body.
And
so
that
might
take
a
little
bit
of
what
we
call
like
sensory
exploration.
And
so
creating
a
little
sensory
toolkit
for
yourself,
maybe
it's
a
vibrator,
maybe
it's
a
feather,
maybe
it's
um
a
soft
piece
of
fabric.
You
know,
what
like
what
are
things
that
do
feel
good
to
your
body
that
you
can
start
exploring?

SPEAKER_00
44:18

Yeah.
Those
are
like
really
practical
things.
I
I
don't
remember.
There
was
one
session
we
talked
about
this
at
the
summit,
having
like
that
sensory
tool
bag
that
remember
who
it
was
that
carried
them
with
them
where
they
had
like,
you
know,
the
things
that
they
knew
that
they
would
need,
whether
it
was
like
one
of
the
things
that
set
them
back
sensory-wise
was
maybe
having
dirty
hands.
So
they
had
like
a
clean
wipe
in
their
sensory
pack.
Or
maybe
they
had
earplugs
if
it
was
gonna
be
too
loud,
or
maybe
it
was,
you
know,
the
dryness
on
their
lips
is
always
gonna
be
something
that
they're
like,
I
hate
this,
I
can't
stand
it.
It's
like
it's
triggering,
so
they
always
have
like
chapstick,
whatever
that
is,
like
having
a
fidget,
that
can
definitely
help
in
your
regulation
throughout
the
day.
Just
little
things
doesn't
have
to
be
big
all
the
time.
Because
the
reality
is,
like,
and
maybe
you
can
speak
to
this,
like
the
reality
is
that
we
can't
always
stop
and
take
these
massive
breaths
and
be
as
mindful
when
we're
in
the
middle
of
you
know,
New
York
City
traffic,
you
know,
like
it's
not
always
achievable
to
do
like
mindful
stuff.
So
like
having
those
sensory
tactile
things
are
helpful,
I
think.

SPEAKER_01
45:28

Yeah,
definitely
some
sort
of
like
little
fidget.
Like
honestly,
I
have
a
little
fidget
right
now
that
I've
been
playing
with
this
whole
time.
So
yeah.
So
just
kind
of
creating
your
own
self-care
toolbox,
whether
that's
for
sensory,
whether
that's
for
movement,
whether
that's
for
you
know,
um,
your
own
mental
health.
So
yeah,
it's
not
just
about
physical
exercise,
which
that's
very
important.
Like,
don't
get
me
wrong,
like
we
all
need
that,
right?
But
there
is
there
are
steps
before
you
can
create
that
for
yourself,
especially
when
there
is
so
much
chronic
pain
and
guarding
and
just
a
um,
like
I
have
a
lot
of
women
who
they
want
to
retrain
their
core,
but
immediately
when
they
start
to
do
exercise,
they
be
get
bloated
the
next
day.
So
we
have
to
take
it
slow
because
when
you
do
exercises,
especially
for
the
core,
you
know,
it
is
kind
of
that
um
compressing,
it's
that
spinal
movement.
And
when
you
are
similar
to
like
a
lot
of
women,
when
they're
in
pain,
they
go
into
that
fetal
position,
right?
And
so
um
kind
of
seeing
if
you're
in
that
fetal
position
because
you're
in
chronic
pain,
you
know,
moving
your
spine
in
that
direction
as
well,
is
that
underlying
dysregulation
for
you?
I
don't
know.
I
don't
know.
So
it's
like
those
types
of
things,
like
looking
at
the
patterns
that
your
body
has
just
innately
gone
to,
and
how
can
we
how
can
we
switch
the
pattern
a
little
bit
to
create
safety
within
your
body?

SPEAKER_00
47:12

Yeah,
and
you
know
what
we
had
talked
about
just
a
little
bit
ago
meeting
people
where
they're
at,
but
what
does
that
look
like
when
people
are
dealing
with
severe
pain?
Because
I
feel
like
a
lot
of
people
are
like,
if
you
meet
me
where
I'm
at,
I'm
gonna
be
in
that
fetal
position.
How
do
we
get
them
out
of
that
and
meet
them
where
we're
at
in
those
situations?
So
I
mean,
that's
kind
of
back
to
our
sensory
toolkit.

SPEAKER_01
47:32

If
you're
in
that
fetal
position,
you
or
you're
noticing
the
pain,
what
could
feel
better
for
you?
What
could
it
be
comp
could
it
be
compression?
Could
it
be
uh
changing
the
location,
your
environment?
Could
you
go
outside?
You
know,
so
it's
it's
changing
different
parameters
to
to
get
your
brain
and
body
out
of
that
loop.

SPEAKER_00
47:57

Yeah.
Something
that
you
and
I
had
kind
of
talked
about
was
for
me,
going
back
to
like,
you
know,
talking
about
things
that
I
like
to
hold
on
to
that
are
small.
So
this
is
like
the
pain
thing.
And
you
were
like,
you
take
it
and
you
put
it
in
this
box
or
in
this
window,
and
you
just
like
kind
of
release
it.
You
push
it
off.
Like,
does
this
matter
right
now?
And
one
of
the
things
that
I
realized
that
I
oftentimes
do
in
this
the
pain
scenarios
for
me
that
have
been
really
helpful
is
that
I
have
to
talk
to
myself
and
say,
am
I
in
danger?
Is
there
a
threat
around
me?
Am
I
capable
of
moving
my
body
this
way?
Am
I
capable
of
taking
a
sip
of
water?
Am
I
capable
of
feeding
myself
right
now?
And
so,
like,
I
walk
through
a
lot
of
those
things
and
like
self-talk
those
things
through
so
that
I
can
bring
myself
back
into
this
reality.
Because
sometimes
I
will
work
myself
up
emotionally
and
mentally
into
a
realm
that's
not
even
realistic
to
what's
actually
around
me.
Like
I
create
a
space
that
isn't
as
healthy
or
safe
for
myself.
But
if
I'm
allowing
myself
to
regulate
my
space
sometimes,
I
feel
like
my
nervous
system
can
then
regulate
as
well.

SPEAKER_01
49:15

Yeah.
Yeah.
I
love
that
you
shared
that.
Thank
you
for
sharing
that.
Because
a
lot
of
like
when
there
is
so
much
chronic
pain,
it's
like
your
brain
is
just
like,
oh,
this
is
here
again,
right?
Like,
here
it
is
again,
here
it
is
again.
And
so
that
self-talk
is
important
because
they
do
create
better
endorphins
within
your
body,
right?
Yeah
and
and
better
messages
that
you're
sending,
those
better
beliefs
about
yourself.
And
so,
you
know,
it's
it's
hard
because
it
it
is
a
struggle,
but
when
you
when
it
becomes
more
natural
and
when
you
start
to
retrain
those
patterns,
your
nervous
system
is
going
to
start
searching
for
those
patterns
versus
the
negative
patterns.
Right,
right.

SPEAKER_00
49:59

And
that's
not
to
invalidate
the
pain,
that's
to
help
identify
what's
actual
pain
and
what's
your
nervous
system
firing
too
much.
Like
there
is
a
difference
there,
or
not
firing,
but
how
your
brain
perceives
that
pain.
For

Rapid Fire Tips And What To Stop

SPEAKER_00
50:13

just
these
quick
last
few
seconds
here,
we're
gonna
do
a
few
quick
questions,
rapid
fire,
um,
that
may
be
helpful.
Um,
one
thing
you
wish
every
woman
knew
about
their
body.

SPEAKER_01
50:29

One
thing
I
wish
every
woman
knew
about
their
body
is
that
they
are
what
they
want
it
to
be,
right?
They
can
become
whatever
they
want
to
be.
And,
you
know,
when
when
there
is
so
much
chronic
pain,
it
can
put
us
into
a
bubble
of
creating
these
false
beliefs
about
ourselves.
And
so
I
want
every
woman
to
know
about
their
bodies
that
there
is
healing,
you
know,
there
there
can
there
can
be
the
right
approach
to
to
overcome
your
chronic
pain
and
that
um
you
are
strong.

SPEAKER_00
51:02

Yeah.
Oh,
that's
good.
Okay.
Most
misunderstood
symptom
of
pelvic
floor
dysfunction.

SPEAKER_01
51:10

The
most
misunderstood
symptom
of
pelvic
floor
dysfunction,
I
would
have
to
say,
we
didn't
get
into
this
too
much.
Maybe
this
could
be
for
another
conversation,
but
um
gut
health
and
our
digestion,
you
know,
like
all
of
that
is
connected.
So
if
there
are
if
there
is
dysregulation
within
the
gut,
the
the
pelvic
floor
is
gonna
follow
suit
too
and
also
be
dysregulated.
So
those
two
are
definitely
connected.

SPEAKER_00
51:35

So
that
will
be
another
episode
because
I
think
that's
gonna
be
a
big
one
for
us.
So
if
people
have
questions,
they
gotta
let
me
know
because
this
we'll
we'll
we
should
touch
on
that.
Um,
daily
habit
you
swear
by.

SPEAKER_01
51:47

Daily
habit
I
swear
by
is
getting
up
and
spending
time
for
myself
in
the
morning.
Because
when
there
is
dysregulation,
nervous
system
dysregulation,
the
first
thing
that
we
lose
is
our
own
self-care
rituals.
And
so,
what
are
the
rituals
that
that
you
need
to
create
for
yourself
to
be
intentional
for
your
healing?
And
I
I
can
already
I
can
tell
on
days
when
I
don't
get
up
and
do
something
for
me
in
the
morning.
I'm
dysregulated
all
day.
It
you
know,
it
really
does
set
the
tone
for
the
day,
even
if
it's
just
for
a
couple
of
minutes.

SPEAKER_00
52:24

Yeah,
I
like
that.
Something
people
are
doing
that
you
would
maybe
gently
say,
maybe
stop
doing.

SPEAKER_01
52:33

Well,
kegels
for
one.
Um
I
feel
like
that's
a
trend
people
are
starting,
people
know
that,
right?
Like,
yeah,
I
don't
know.
I
feel
like
that's
been
that's
been
out
in
the
in
the
in
the
social
media.
Like,
don't
do
Kegels.
So
um
breath
holding,
holding
our
breath.
You
know,
that's
just
going
to
keep
us
in
this
state
of
dysregulation.
So
I
know
we
talked
about
like
the
shallow
breathing
for
you,
but
you
know,
there's
more
work
to
be
done
for
you
for
your
breathing
system
to
help
you
to
feel
safe.
But
um,
yeah,
breath,
breath
holding,
um,
because
that
does
not
only
for
our
nervous
system,
but
when
we
are
lifting
something,
when
you're
picking
up
your
kid,
if
you're
holding
your
breath,
that's
just
putting
so
much
pressure
down
on
the
pelvic
floor.
So
you're
at
increased
risk
of
having
a
prolapse,
leaking,
um
just
different
things
like
that.
So
breath
holding
is
definitely
one.

SPEAKER_00
53:27

Oh,
these
are
all
really
good.
Like,
I'm
like,
there's
so
much
we
can
expand
on
this.
But
so
much.
Like,
that's
why
I'm
like,
this
is
such
a
unique
space
that
I
feel
like
you're
in.
And
I
hadn't
really
realized
there
was
this
space
for
a
really
long
time.
So
I'm
really
glad
that
we
were
able
to
meet
and
kind
of
go
over
this.
But
if
someone's
listening
and
feels
disconnected,
frustrated,
or
even
betrayed
by
their
body,
what
would
you
want
them
to
hear
as
our
last
remarks?

SPEAKER_01
53:54

Well,
I
would
encourage
you
that
your
body
is
just
trying
to
protect
you.
It
really
is.
And
it's
it's
adapting
to
the
environment
that
you're
in.
And
so
what
is
going
on
within
the
relationships,
within
your
environment,
within
your
medical
um
providers
that
aren't
helping
you
to
create
that
safety
for
yourself.
Um
and
and
if
if
if
there's
some
red
flags
there,
then
that's
where
we
need
to
start.

SPEAKER_00
54:24

Yeah,
I
hear
that
one.

Final Reframe And Closing

SPEAKER_00
54:26

If
this
episode
resonated
with
you,
I
hope
that
you
are
walking
away
with
just
a
little
bit
more
understanding
and
maybe
just
like
a
little
bit
more
compassion
for
your
body
and
for
you
and
the
work
that
you've
been
doing
and
and
hopefully
the
healing
that
you
have,
because
this
has
been
helpful
for
me.
Just
meeting
with
you
and
understanding
more
is
giving
me
better
tools
and
better
recognition
about
myself
and
my
journey.
So
I
appreciate
you
taking
the
time.
I
appreciate
your
expertise
in
this.
And
I
want
to
have
you
back
because
we
should
talk
about
more
of
this
stuff.
It's
so
fascinating
to
me.
Let's
do
it.
All
right.
Well,
we'll
see
we'll
schedule
it.

SPEAKER_01
55:03

So,
all
right.

SPEAKER_00
55:04

Thank
you
so
much.
And
until
next
time,
everyone,
continue
advocating
for
you
and
for
others.